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Jan 21 13 4:59 AM

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Greets All !
I'd like to create Norman/Frank etc dark ages mounted troops by conversion of WF models.  Could anyone post photos of side by side comparisons of the various WF horses?  All sites I've looked at compare various manufacturers, but what I am after is within WF specifically.  Right now I have quite a supply of the "ancient pony" mounts and want to see scale wise how Persian mounts etc match up.
Thanks !
VonGamer

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#1 [url]

Jan 21 13 7:13 AM

vongamer,

Welcome to our forums!

At this time I have just returned from the Siege of Augusta convention. All my painted figures are still packed, but I can get them unpacked and sorted.

Can you be more specific please? Are you looking for Dark Ages horses only, or horses from other time periods as well?

Jim

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#2 [url]

Jan 21 13 9:38 AM

Jim:
Please don't go to any special bother, but accept my appreciation for your efforts.  I'd like to see how all the different WF horses compare to each other.  I have not seen WF horses "side by side" for conversion purposes. So all time periods would be useful.  I appreciate that saddles/reins - other moulded on equipment would not necessarily fit across periods. 
I plan on trying some "green stuff" applications where appropriate.
The "ancient ponies", while correct for many uses, just seem way too small for certain applications.  Specifically I'm thinking Normans/Franks, but perhaps Byzantines or the Spanish Reconquista.

Right now I'm finishing a 6 point Saga pure Viking Force, all infantry, so I'm deciding on their first opponents.

While it is easy to mix manufacturers, I thought it might be a nice hobby challenge to see how far I can stretch WF offerings.

That aside, how was your convention experience?

Regards,
VonGamer

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#3 [url]

Jan 22 13 8:11 AM

vongamer,

I really liked your request. Forum members with great ideas like you requested are NEVER a bother. When you mentioned comparing all the horses I have been working some other possible presentation ideas, but your request is a great idea. Hopefully tomorrow I can get this all put together. Thank you for the idea.

Wargames Factory has an extensive line of Dark Ages figures, and we won't 'break your bank'! Many forum members have made great suggestions for converting our WF figures to whatever they want to build. Ancient Germans are so versatile many use them for multiple situations. (peasants for example)

The siege of Augusta convention group are great people. There was quite a mix of both the boomer and youth represented. Besides my demo Zombie game there was an adjacent Saga demo game, and everyone was impressed with both the WF Dark Ages figures and our pricing to use when playing Saga. So if you have family/friends near Augusta, GA, January is a great month to visit, and get in some miniatures gaming if you time the visit with the convention. The northern part of North Carolina had just gotten 6+" of snow, and I had to clear snow off my car before I could head to the convention. So leaving the snow behind, it all melted in my area by the time I returned, was an added benefit.

Jim

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#4 [url]

Jan 22 13 6:46 PM

vongamer

Um......IMHO......the WF, WSS horses are worth a look. As to rank and file (none noble) cav., the ponies/horses of the Celts boxed sets might work.

I am therefore I think....OR....I think therefore I am...OR...I think I am therefore I am!!

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bryon31

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#5 [url]

Jan 23 13 5:41 AM

I'd like to jump in here and say that I'm also very interested in seeing comparisons of the different horse available from WF.   I like the look of the WSS horses but I'm not sure what they would look like beneath a Roman rider.. etc....

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#6 [url]

Jan 24 13 11:12 AM





everyone,

Here is a comparison photo of four of our cavalry figures from three of our product lines:



 
These are the Roman, Ancient German, Celt and Persian Cavalry.




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#8 [url]

Jan 24 13 5:55 PM

I'd like to jump in here and say that I'm also very interested in seeing comparisons of the different horse available from WF.   I like the look of the WSS horses but I'm not sure what they would look like beneath a Roman rider.. etc....

-bryon31

Based on (vague) memories from a documentary from the last 2-3 years.  The rank and file "Roman" cavalry was not too likely to have big "warhorses". My old gray cells are telling me that the horses of those days were often large ponies (compared to today's average horse)

I am therefore I think....OR....I think therefore I am...OR...I think I am therefore I am!!

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bryon31

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#9 [url]

Jan 25 13 5:35 AM

   
Based on (vague) memories from a documentary from the last 2-3 years.  The rank and file "Roman" cavalry was not too likely to have big "warhorses". My old gray cells are telling me that the horses of those days were often large ponies (compared to today's average horse)

-crazyharborc

You are quite correct.  I primarily play fantasy so I'm not going for historical accuracy. 

On that note the Persian horse looks very nice. 

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#10 [url]

Jan 25 13 4:17 PM

Yes - Thanks for posting the pics. Looks like the Persian Equine will be my preferred mount for Normans and Franks.  Am I to understand the "reined head" is only available with the complete Persian Cav set? Should not be too hard to "green stuff" reins etc.
VonGamer

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potter

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#11 [url]

Jan 25 13 5:10 PM

From what I've also read, they were often smaller, bit like the Celtic Ponies.

Mind you, I'm sure they would have 'sequestered' any mounts available to them depending on need and where they were stationed. 

It is likely heavy cavalry (as we would know it i.e larger more robust horses bred for size and strength) would not have come until later in the history of the Roman Empire when they noticed the effects of 'local' (i.e invaded or the enemy) cavalry to the East, such as those used by Cataphracts

Is there anything you can't combine with the Persian figs?

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#12 [url]

Jan 26 13 7:32 AM

vongamer,

Glad to help.

Yes, the horse sprues are just bare horses. You could of course use green stuff to modify them.

potter,

Cataphracts and knights would require larger, stronger horse to carry all that additional weight. As early as the 13th century BC ancient reliefs show 'armor equipped riders. China is believed to have scale armor equipped horses some time between  7th to 10th century BC. and for Rome much later, 253 AD, as units.  The Romans were using armor equipped riders as early as 4 centuries prior so I say use them earlier if you want.

While Rome's disciplined troops fared well against cataphracts they are fun to play with, IMHO. I really enjoy the shock and awe effect of heavy cavalry against, shall we say, the less than disciplined troops throughout early world history. My long, long time gaming friends never hesitate. Jim gets the cav. and is sent to the flank. Just try to not let Jim roll any dice, if possible.

Jim

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#13 [url]

Jan 26 13 3:51 PM

Thanks Again Jim, and all.
I think it is possible to confirm any horse size opinion from supporting resources one can find. For example, a quick google search on my part confirmed Norman horses could be larger based on armor barding relics, and interestingly enough, the size of Norman horse shoes recovered.
I think the horses of the era were classified in 3 main categories, war, riding, and pulling carts.  I agree the smaller versions were more predominate. Seems the increase in size really started around 900 ad, progressively getting larger thru 1300ad. Afterwards, it appears a more "formal" breeding philosdophy began to take hold, with only a few "breeds" of the smaller types preserved thru selective breeding to our own time.  I have not researched Eastern influences yet.
A fun diversion however.
On just a whim, I purchased a couple fun tubes of horses at my local Michael's craft store. They all appear to be a perfect scale match. I have the plastics game "Carnage" where the human riders ride bulls. They have saddles molded to the riders, and are a perfect fit. So if they fit, I know others will also.
So back to WF, I'll be pondering creating saddles and reins, and plan to use the Roman Cavalry Rider bodies to start my conversions, as they are already chain mail armored. Look like they may work fairly well as Franks. On the helms, I plan on adding more pronounced nose guards for that (to me) more classic Norman look. And see what success I'll have with additional chain mail etc. The kite shields on the Saxon Sprues are a welcome inspiration.
Any chance on seeing the WF WSS horses compared also?
As an aside, looks like the persian horse sprue bundle deal is a fair offering. I plan on adding persian infantry bodies as poor common troops as well. Easy to convert to the dark ages with little effort, more just cross applications of heads etc.
I am using some early germans as viking beserkers.
All within WF product lines. So far my purchases include the Romans - legionaires and cavalry, Celts, Celt Cavalry, Celt Chariots, Ancient Germans, Numidians, Saxons, Vikings (armored and unarmored) about 20 boxes so far.
I also noticed the neck length issue, I just drill out a bit more where the heads go, they fit right in and are easy to position.
My first viking group - about 45 figs - is just about complete. Average wargames table quality but I hope to post pics soon.
Regards All, and thanks again Sir Jim.,
VonGamer

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jack

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#14 [url]

Jan 26 13 6:00 PM

I am using some early germans as viking beserkers.
All within WF product lines. So far my purchases include the Romans - legionaires and cavalry, Celts, Celt Cavalry, Celt Chariots, Ancient Germans, Numidians, Saxons, Vikings (armored and unarmored) about 20 boxes so far.

My first viking group - about 45 figs - is just about complete. Average wargames table quality but I hope to post pics soon.-VonGamer

-vongamer

Hey,
If your happy with the results, thats all that matters, Im sure they will be just fine. I myself am what I call "a game painter". My figures are not for competition by anymeans.I just want my flesh to look like flesh, metal like metal and so forth.
I leave the fine detailing to those with FAR more patience than I have.

Good Luck.

"You see old friend, I brought more soldiers than you did." 'King Leonidas - 300'

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#15 [url]

Jan 27 13 4:35 AM

vongamer 

Thank you for being such a great customer!

& everyone,

I did NOT include the horse sprues since both the horse only sprue and the Persian infantry sprue bundles are a close out item. Hence the fantastic price on them. If any of you are interested in either of these items to use for 'bits' please keep this in mind if you have not purchased any. 

The Persians are so versatile I am taking over 40 bundles with me for a single customer at the Willliamsburg Muster convention starting this Friday. (At 40 bundles that is 480 figures for under $100!) For example, on another thread on these forums a member is removing just the legs, re-gluing feet only and making fantasy figures out of the Persian infantry. 

Since there are also so many extra weapons on the sprue I LOVE what Rob Broom did in his book War and Conquest. He makes special bases to denote various game functions: command center locations, combat losses, etc. My thought was to use the Persians as possible combat loss markers and stack weapons/shields for command locations or some other similar function.

Does anyone have any other thoughts or uses?

Jim

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potter

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#16 [url]

Jan 27 13 7:48 AM

I have to agree with Jim re: the Persians and their usefulness. I keep coming up with new idea's for mine.

Before the move, I'd mixed some of the bodies with some of the US GI and German Infantry arms and some weapons. Hey Presto, Middle Eastern/North African Insurgents and Fedayeen types to causes troubles  (only in my opinion, they could also be used as Z fighters for Eastern based zombie games) for modern/near future games.

Is there anything you can't combine with the Persian figs?

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#18 [url]

Jan 28 13 5:55 AM

potter,

When you unpack them would please share some photos with us of them? They sound very interesting. Has anyone tried a "Zombies of Arabia game?"


Everyone,
Please share this with your local hobby stores.
Talk about our WF inexpensive way to start into the hobby. For $20 use 1/2 ($10) for figures: 4 WF Persian bundles for 48 figures. Then look at the model paints available for the other $10 (2-4?) and you are on your way! No worries if you mess up your first paint jobs. For the veteran painter it is also a great way to 'experiment' with new ideas and/or techniques. 
If your local store does NOT know about WF please have them send me an email jim.goss@wargamesfactory.net and I will be happy to assist them with information, free games by WF and other assistance.

Jim

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potter

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#19 [url]

Jan 28 13 7:12 AM




Now a Zombies of Arabia Game sound pretty cool or maybe 'Beau Z' with French Foreign Legion troops holed up fending off the hordes.*

*There's actually a story of this in the 'Recorded Attacks' Zombie graphic novel...

Sadly Jim they're in storage in Devon atm and I fear I didn't get any pics but let me have a look

This is some of the stuff I got round to assembling before the exodus:





Is there anything you can't combine with the Persian figs?

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