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Feb 14 09 1:10 PM

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http://www.wargamesfactory.com/BookingRetrieve.aspx?ID=44051

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#2 [url]

Mar 20 09 7:56 PM

This is a great idea, mainly because I'm collecting a Were- army for use in Warhammer (Using Beastmen army book) and the continued converting of wolves is kinda driving me to the point of giving up.
 
And well werejaguars & werehyenas, I could always add more exotic elements to the mix.

Do not doubt your work. No matter how pointless or unrewarding it may appear to be, anything is better then knowing for certain that it actually is.

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#3 [url]

Jun 29 09 7:37 PM

It's taken me a while to find this thread - whilst the title is funny I think changing it to 'Werewolves' would draw more attention and get people more involved.  Personally I'd prefer them all in Full monster/man/wolf form (aka Crinos) that way they are useable in Fantasy (LOTR Angmar armies enspecially), Gothic Horror, Sci-fi, Wierd World War, etc.  Making one in the middle of the 'change' from is really just a display piece or a conversion challenge using a human sprue.

As for bodies - I think 3-4 larger (say 32mm) bodies would fit on a sprue - but leave the heads off - and then include 3 optional heads for each:
- Classic Wolf Head
- Pather/Tiger Head (Sth American/Asian)
- Jackel/Hyena (Egyptian/african)

Leave left arms on the bodies and then the right arms are poseable.  No need to make a number of optional arms - they'd all be with claws out wanting to rend!

I'd prefer no tails - but I guess you could have 2 optional tails - dog & cat.

"Don't try to make babies with your own roleplay character - it always ends in pain & shame" - Advice I never thought I'd have to give once, let alone TWICE!!

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#4 [url]

Jun 30 09 5:17 PM

But which sort of werewolf should receive the focus?  Traditional,  (what I think of as) early horror, or modern?
 
Traditional werewolves were oversized wolves (American Werewolf in London).
 
The "Early Horror" look would be more like "I was a Teenage Werewolf", "The Wolf Man", etc.
 
And "Modern" would be more Dog Soldiers and The Howling.
 
Or should we try for a "1 of each" approach?
 
While I'm a fan of most shape-shifters, I'm more comfortable keeping things wolf-centric and maybe doing additional shifters later on--perhaps by region.

That's like hypnotizing chickens...

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#5 [url]

Jun 30 09 6:23 PM

I'm all for the MODERN look.

UnderWorld / White Wolf's World Of Darkness Crinos Form, Half Man Half Wolf 7ft Tall Monstrosity with claws and Animal head on a humanoid body.

The Early Horror look isn't poplular anymore, aside from parodies and Universal Studios Tributes, and Traditional look big wolves are readily availalble in Fantasy Miniatures lines.

Since I'm also a big fan of Anita Blake and Sookie Stackhouse, I'd find a home for Werepanthers, Werehyhenas, and Weretigers as well.

I don't think we'd have the option of holding off on the other were's if we actually planned on ever getting them in production.

Maybe a sprue with:
WereWolf
Wolf
WereTiger
Tiger
WerePanther
Panther

The animals can be single pose, and the were, having arms that are ball and socket at the shoulder, for some posablility.

The success of the Underworld and Twilight Franchises has led to TV series deals for both the Sookie Stackhouse (TRUEBLOOD on HBO) and Anita Blake (in production for IFC). Both of those series have Werewolves, WerePanthers, and WereTigers and will increase awareness of them. No one to my knowledge makes a modern were for there tigers and panthers.


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#6 [url]

Jun 30 09 6:29 PM

I to would go for a more modern look. Witch is more Anthro/Furry looking.

So it would be a muscular uper torso build human for the most part.

But:

-Covered in Fur
-Reverse Joint Legs. Like the Hind legs of dogs.
-disincentive Animal Faces. Thow maby with more Human Like eyes. (I.E. Eye Brows that can show emotion. Even if that emotion is going to be P.O.'ed.)

I also think it's important to be able to be able to build all the figures on the sprue as the same kind of "wear". I whould assume if you want to field a unit of Wear wolfs you whould have no use for the wear cat on the sprue for example.

Unless we're talking a game were wear wolfs are caseing wear cats up trees.
angel



Now. I personal feel it may be smarter to keep to Canine heads. Wolfs, Jackles, and Foxs. There is major differences in the paws of Caniens compared to the paws of felines.

Notable the shape of the Claws.

This would mean diffrent hands/feat for the felines, along with diffrent tails.

I also feel Canine wears whould be more popular then there puma and tiger counter parts. Removeing the cats from the sprue whould also be a step in the direction of being able to field "pure" wear units.



Right now with all of these heads and tail options, it's sounding like we're looking at one fig per sprue!
O______O

Let's try to get atleast two! lol

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#9 [url]

Jun 30 09 6:43 PM

Oh yes. for got to mention. No Yiffy!
D=<

(And no. Don't Google that. If you really want to know what it is PM me....)


@Adam: Good Examples.

Tried to look up examples of Kitsunes.

Most of what I found was just adorableness thow....

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#10 [url]

Jun 30 09 7:44 PM

I agree = Modern Crinos 100% - there are plenty of Large wolves out there and for sill horror:  greenstuff some sideburns onto a figure

I'm all for the MODERN look.
Since I'm also a big fan of Anita Blake and Sookie Stackhouse, I'd find a home for Werepanthers, Werehyhenas, and Weretigers as well.
I don't think we'd have the option of holding off on the other were's if we actually planned on ever getting them in production.
Maybe a sprue with:WereWolfWolfWereTigerTigerWerePantherPanther
The animals can be single pose, and the were, having arms that are ball and socket at the shoulder, for some posablility.
The success of the Underworld and Twilight Franchises has led to TV series deals for both the Sookie Stackhouse (TRUEBLOOD on HBO) and Anita Blake (in production for IFC). Both of those series have Werewolves, WerePanthers, and WereTigers and will increase awareness of them. No one to my knowledge makes a modern were for there tigers and panthers.

-adamsouza

As for making them generic - I'm getting a freind of mine to do some concept sketches (he's very good at that stuff) and what I suggest is:
4 Crinos Bodies with Left arms (about 32mm) we could go bigger (say 40mm) but then youd only fit 2-3.
4 Right Arms (Poseable) you could add left arms as well and remove them form the body, but I am concerned about sprue space!
4 Wolf Heads
4 Tiger/Panther Heads (it's all in the paint)
4 Jackel or Hyena heads
4 Wolves Tails
4 'Cats' Tails

I think these are realistic for a 4"x6" sprue

For the Cat/Dog argument = there isn't really that much difference!  (Yes I know Cats have different claws, but this is a were-cat!) - these two as an example - Interchange the head and tail!

The middle fellow in this picture

"Don't try to make babies with your own roleplay character - it always ends in pain & shame" - Advice I never thought I'd have to give once, let alone TWICE!!

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#11 [url]

Jun 30 09 7:54 PM

I agree 100% they should be 'Crinos' 32mm - There are plenty of large wolves out there in miniature land and if you want a silly horror WW = greenstuff some sideburns onto a miniature.
 

Since I'm also a big fan of Anita Blake and Sookie Stackhouse, I'd find a home for Werepanthers, Werehyhenas, and Weretigers as well.
I don't think we'd have the option of holding off on the other were's if we actually planned on ever getting them in production.
Maybe a sprue with:WereWolfWolfWereTigerTigerWerePantherPanther
The animals can be single pose, and the were, having arms that are ball and socket at the shoulder, for some posablility.
The success of the Underworld and Twilight Franchises has led to TV series deals for both the Sookie Stackhouse (TRUEBLOOD on HBO) and Anita Blake (in production for IFC). Both of those series have Werewolves, WerePanthers, and WereTigers and will increase awareness of them. No one to my knowledge makes a modern were for there tigers and panthers.

-adamsouza


 
I actually think that one size fits all the Crinos forms (except the Kitsune, but just put a fox head on a geisha) - I'm getting a freind of mine to do up some concept sketches (he's good at that) to better explain - but here's my suggestion of what could be practically put on a 4x6 sprue:
- 4 Crinos Bodies with left arm attached (32mm) any larger and you'd probably fit only 2-3 on the sprue.
- 4 Right Arms (Posable) - again you could detach the left arms and make them available, but it means less room on the sprue.
- 4 Wolves heads
- 4 Tiger/Panther heads
- 4 Jackel or Hyena heads
- 4 Wolves Tails
- 4 'Cat' Tails
 
As for the Cat / Dog differences arguement - there really isn't much difference between them in Crinos form!  I think these two pictures amply demonstrate that!

The middle fellow in this picture


"Don't try to make babies with your own roleplay character - it always ends in pain & shame" - Advice I never thought I'd have to give once, let alone TWICE!!

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#12 [url]

Jun 30 09 7:55 PM

I agree 100% they should be 'Crinos' 32mm or 40mm - There are plenty of large wolves out there in miniature land and if you want a silly horror WW = greenstuff some sideburns onto a miniature.
 

Since I'm also a big fan of Anita Blake and Sookie Stackhouse, I'd find a home for Werepanthers, Werehyhenas, and Weretigers as well.
I don't think we'd have the option of holding off on the other were's if we actually planned on ever getting them in production.
Maybe a sprue with:WereWolfWolfWereTigerTigerWerePantherPanther
The animals can be single pose, and the were, having arms that are ball and socket at the shoulder, for some posablility.
The success of the Underworld and Twilight Franchises has led to TV series deals for both the Sookie Stackhouse (TRUEBLOOD on HBO) and Anita Blake (in production for IFC). Both of those series have Werewolves, WerePanthers, and WereTigers and will increase awareness of them. No one to my knowledge makes a modern were for there tigers and panthers.

-adamsouza


 
I actually think that one size fits all the Crinos forms (except the Kitsune) - I'm getting a freind of mine to do up some concept sketches (he's good at that) to better explain - but here's my suggestion of what could be practically put on a 4x6 sprue:
- 4 Crinos Bodies with left arm attached (32mm) any larger and you'd probably fit only 2-3 on the sprue.
- 4 Right Arms (Posable) - again you could detach the left arms and make them available, but it means less room on the sprue.
- 4 Wolves heads
- 4 Tiger/Panther heads
- 4 Jackel or Hyena heads
- 4 Wolves Tails
- 4 'Cat' Tails
 
As for the Cat / Dog differences arguement - there really isn't much difference between them in Crinos form!  I think these two pictures amply demonstrate that!


The middle fellow in this picture

"Don't try to make babies with your own roleplay character - it always ends in pain & shame" - Advice I never thought I'd have to give once, let alone TWICE!!

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#13 [url]

Jun 30 09 7:57 PM

I agree 100% they should be 'Crinos' 32mm or 40mm - There are plenty of large wolves out there in miniature land and if you want a silly horror WW = greenstuff some sideburns onto a miniature.
 

Since I'm also a big fan of Anita Blake and Sookie Stackhouse, I'd find a home for Werepanthers, Werehyhenas, and Weretigers as well.
I don't think we'd have the option of holding off on the other were's if we actually planned on ever getting them in production.
Maybe a sprue with:WereWolfWolfWereTigerTigerWerePantherPanther
The animals can be single pose, and the were, having arms that are ball and socket at the shoulder, for some posablility.
The success of the Underworld and Twilight Franchises has led to TV series deals for both the Sookie Stackhouse (TRUEBLOOD on HBO) and Anita Blake (in production for IFC). Both of those series have Werewolves, WerePanthers, and WereTigers and will increase awareness of them. No one to my knowledge makes a modern were for there tigers and panthers.

-adamsouza


 
I actually think that one size fits all the Crinos forms (except the Kitsune) - I'm getting a freind of mine to do up some concept sketches (he's good at that) to better explain - but here's my suggestion of what could be practically put on a 4x6 sprue:
- 4 Crinos Bodies with left arm attached (32mm) any larger and you'd probably fit only 2-3 on the sprue.
- 4 Right Arms (Posable) - again you could detach the left arms and make them available, but it means less room on the sprue.
- 4 Wolves heads
- 4 Tiger/Panther heads
- 4 Jackel or Hyena heads
- 4 Wolves Tails
- 4 'Cat' Tails
 
As for the Cat / Dog differences arguement - there really isn't much difference between them in Crinos form!  I think these two pictures amply demonstrate that!

The middle big guy:



 

"Don't try to make babies with your own roleplay character - it always ends in pain & shame" - Advice I never thought I'd have to give once, let alone TWICE!!

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#14 [url]

Jul 1 09 6:59 AM

My suggestion - stick with the more traditional 'modern' look, like the big guy in the middle above.  Stick with clothes that look modern or can look modern as well as other periods - simple pants/shirts, preferably not shredded.
 
Why? 'cause it will appeal to more people - the White Wolf World of Darkness RPGers would appreciate it, and depending on the look, possibly Traveller players for Vargr substitutes.

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#15 [url]

Jul 1 09 10:31 AM

My suggestion - stick with the more traditional 'modern' look, like the big guy in the middle above.  Stick with clothes that look modern or can look modern as well as other periods - simple pants/shirts, preferably not shredded.
 
Why? 'cause it will appeal to more people - the White Wolf World of Darkness RPGers would appreciate it, and depending on the look, possibly Traveller players for Vargr substitutes.



-kristof65



But that's for RPG systems isn't it?No offense but we need this sprue to appeal to the War gamers. The guys who need atleast ten sprues of wear wolfs.

O.o

If you only need 1-3 Wear wolfs there are plenty of pewter ones of the market. Raper makes a few I'm pretty sure, and Privateer press have thows massive Warp Wolfs if you need big guys.

Lets keep them in mind, but let's not tailor this sprue for them. Becuase if we do that it may never get off the ground.







- 4 Crinos Bodies with left arm attached (32mm) any larger and you'd probably fit only 2-3 on the sprue.
- 4 Right Arms (Posable) - again you could detach the left arms and make them available, but it means less room on the sprue.
- 4 Wolves heads
- 4 Tiger/Panther heads
- 4 Jackel or Hyena heads
- 4 Wolves Tails
- 4 'Cat' Tails






-lachlan



I think I'm missing something here. Parts count:4 Large bodies
4 large sets of arms.
16 Large Heads
8 Tails.

Lul, wut?

Will all of that accualy fit on a 4x6 sprue?
O___o

I sujested just going with dog based wears because there more popular/saves room on the sprue to get as many as we can.








If this is going to be Dog/Cat this it's going to have to drop down a few figures.












We also need seperate feet for cats and Dogs. Look at the above Wears. There is massive diffrences in the shape off the hind legs, and the shape of the claws.






Cat:










Dog:













The biggest diffrence is in the shape on the foot. Note how the Dog's foot extendes and the angle/shape of it's ankle. It's at more of a slope then the cat's counterpart.






If the legs are canine it might look abit odd on cats.






If the legs are feline, it will look totaly wroung dogs and everyone will notice.






>______O


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#16 [url]

Jul 1 09 11:13 AM

Go with generic, humanoid body. Canine and feline heads as well as tails.

For those who complain about the legs: Would you expect a folkloric creature to have an completely realistic anatomy? Big claws = cool. It doesent matter that in reality only felines have large claws.wink

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#17 [url]

Jul 1 09 11:17 AM

But that's for RPG systems isn't it?No offense but we need this sprue to appeal to the War gamers. The guys who need atleast ten sprues of wear wolfs.
O.o
If you only need 1-3 Wear wolfs there are plenty of pewter ones of the market. Raper makes a few I'm pretty sure, and Privateer press have thows massive Warp Wolfs if you need big guys.
Lets keep them in mind, but let's not tailor this sprue for them. Becuase if we do that it may never get off the ground.

-damn-lucky

<sigh>  I'm not saying tailor it to the RPGers.  I'm saying that if you keep it towards the more "modern" interpretation of werewolfs, and are careful about how you select things for them, you widen the appeal for sprue among all types of gamers. I'm not trying to subvert this sprue for the RPGers - I'm simply pointing out that keeping those systems in mind when finalizing the look for the sprue potentially broadens the market. Sure, RPGer's may only buy 1 sprue for every wargamer who buys 10 sprues.  But if you only have 90 wargamers willing to buy 10 sprues, you're still falling 100 short.  However, if you also have 90 RPGers willing to buy 1 sprue, you're almost there.

Furthermore, for certain types of figures, RPGers don't necessarily want 1-3 sprues.  I know several RPG GMs who have 20-30-40 even 50 skeleton/goblin/orc type figures, even though they aren't wargamers. Cheap sources of werewolves would appeal to those type of GMs running World of Darkness games and certain types of Traveller games. And Traveller fans have always had a decent mix of wargamers among them - many editions of Traveller have had a mass battles wargame system published as well - Striker, Striker 2, etc.


I'm getting really sick of this "RPGers won't help things" attitude I see among several people here.  Yes, there are lots of sprue ideas that appeal really only to RPGers, and they're floundering.  But RPGers shouldn't be ignored completely - every sprue ordered helps, whether it's 1, 5 or 10.  And a lot of gamers are like me - they play both wargames and RPGs and their minis are going to see double duty.

Finally, I've been tracking the Fantasy category for a month now, the Sci-Fi category for a couple of weeks, and just started on the Modern and Other categories.  From what I'm seeiing, the most common order increment is 5 sprues, not 10.  That's something else to keep in mind as well - obviously, WF will have the most accurate data, but from what I can see, most of these things should be optimized for the people buying 5 sprues.  


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#18 [url]

Jul 1 09 12:55 PM

Seriously
 I have about I think 15 different pre-orders in, and only 1 of them is for 10+ sprues, almost all of the sprues I pre-ordered are for 5 sprues, and that's it. 
 I play mostly Skirmish games, or other games, and I don't generally need 50 figures of the same thing.  I get the feeling from you  d-l that you think that miniatures only appeal to the "wargamer" crowd, and yeah  is is trying on my nerves, and yeah it is starting to get a bit offensive.  There are a lot of gammers and people out there, that can be interested in these miniatures that aren't "wargamers". That percived attidute is largely where my comments to you damn-lucky have come from in the past, in that other thread. 

From something  Howard said, about a week ago "
Here's the thing. In the last few months both WF sculpting team and our mold engineer specialist elites have got very good at figuring out what we can get onto a sprue.
We've also found out that, if we can use it to our advantage with multiple sets, it is worth making a separate sprue for things that work over multiple sets. Those of you who have seen the three ancient Celtic sets will note that we have used the Celtic weapon and shield sprue in each set. It may cost us a bit more early on, but it frees up space on the other sprue for more stuff.
Likewise our forthcoming ancient Germans, and two new sets (of which I can say NOTHING) which use the same basic bodies but have different shield and head sprues.
So there is every chance that we'll want to treat the modern weapons as a separate sprue and do it well, then pair it with unique body, head and arm sprues
Which isn't quite what we expected six months ago, but that's why they call it a learning curve"
http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/2009/03/25/modernnear-future-armed-civilians/page13/#post13910573

I took that to mean, that there are some differences in what they thought the way the League would run, and the way it actually is. 
They got way more submissions than they thought, and looking at a number of them, to me a good number of them seem to be geared more for what you d-l call your "RPG systems", and there are people popping in to say what about this and they constantly get  the wargame treatment, and by the wargamer treatment is that this forum is for " The guys who need at least ten sprues of  (X), like were wolves." 

 I personally think that there is a market for these lower order sprues you are dismissing, and that Wargames factory might be changing the way they look at the League.  That is partly what I took from his post a week ago, that they are revaluating the way they are doing it. 

 It may end up going from needing 100 people with 10 orders, to maybe if the reality of the numbers are showing it's different,  to it could be working out at 200 people who order 5. 

I don't know if that is the case, but from my persepective, the perspective of the few other people from these boards i have been in contact with, and what Kristof65 says above, 5 seems more the number people order. Yes it's not at all scientific so take it for what it's worth.  But it can point to meaning that strictly non Wargames sprues may be viable, yeah they will take longer, but as it stands this whole thing has only been going on for about 6 months, there isn't much of a rush now, the zombies seem a fluke.
As Wargames Factory gets a wider customer base, a number of the sprues you are writting off will likely pick up.  In addation if the numbers are 200 at 5 instead of 100 at 10 as a real indication of how it is working, it will likely mean things are going to take longer.  And if it does,  really who cares if a submission sits for a few months and gets more people at smaller amounts.  Up untill Wargames Factory starts renders it's only costing them bandwidth to have the submission around, and while it costs little, it gives them data about the market.


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#19 [url]

Jul 1 09 5:13 PM

For useabilty - I would be making a large number for Dark Futures (Biker Werewolves) and for generic fantasy (probably a unit of each Wolves, Pathers & Hyenas!) - however I wouldn't want to see them with ripped clothing - if I wanted to do that I'd greenstuff my own.

Go with generic, humanoid body. Canine and feline heads as well as tails.For those who complain about the legs: Would you expect a folkloric creature to have an completely realistic anatomy? Big claws = cool. It doesent matter that in reality only felines have large claws.[image]

-borderprince

AMEN!  Can you honestly tell me there is a difference between the bodies of the two crinos forms I suggested?  This is a supernatural/mythical human/animal!  It can have claws the size of sabres!!!  LOL!

As for the amount on the sprue - it was a suggestion only based on legs, torse & left arm attached in 32mm (Slightly larger thahn generic 28, but not ogres) - and using the WF guide:1. Our sprues are 4" x 6" and can typically support 4-6 multi-part 28mm figures or 6-8 marching pose (single or 2-3 part) figures. Please keep this general guideline in mind as you craft your submission.  The Numidian body sprue has 4 28mm bodies and a 24 arms.  However I take your point and if they were to be larger perhaps only two would fit?  But only the future WF designer really knows so anything on my behalf is wishful thinking with a little bit of intelligent speculation.

 

"Don't try to make babies with your own roleplay character - it always ends in pain & shame" - Advice I never thought I'd have to give once, let alone TWICE!!

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#20 [url]

Jul 1 09 6:32 PM

I'm not trying to tell the RPG'ers to bugger off.


I'm just being a realist.


At the least you need 100 people to Pre-order 10 sprues each to get a submistion threw.


I was just mentioning a sprue geared for D20 style games whould not get the same support.


There is no reason this sprue can't meat the needs for both parties. I was just saying this sprue needs to weigh it's audence.


For petes sake, for me I'm only interested about 5 of these guys at the most (Meaning one to two sprues) for a small skirmish game. You guys will be buying more of these guys then me!

But I was hopeing to identify a problem in this sprue. And it was that it's not getting the High Sprue Pre-orders more line infantry style prues whould get.

If it's going to get off the ground needs a larger target audeiance.

(And ironically enough. I'm the definition of the problem I'm perceiving with this spruce getting the pre-orders it needs to get afloat.)

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