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#41 [url]

Jul 6 09 4:42 PM

I forgot to post the Jackal head! 

I do worry that with increasing size and poseability it starts to limit the number available on the sprue.  40mm you might fit 3 on a sprue with room for options, but at 45mm 2 is likely the maximum on a sprue.  In so far as arms - I recomend just having the right arm posable and the left ar attached (like the zombies) - this leaves more space for extra heads, tails, claws, were-fashion accessories, etc!

As for dog forms - there are plenty of suppliers out there who do wolves in plastics - but nonone does werewolves in wonderful crinos !


"Don't try to make babies with your own roleplay character - it always ends in pain & shame" - Advice I never thought I'd have to give once, let alone TWICE!!

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#42 [url]

Jul 6 09 4:56 PM

I forgot to post the Jackal head! 
[image]
I do worry that with increasing size and poseability it starts to limit the number available on the sprue.  40mm you might fit 3 on a sprue with room for options, but at 45mm 2 is likely the maximum on a sprue.

-lachlan

That is true. But the problem is 40mm is abit to small for Heroic 28mm, but anything larger then 45mm I feel whould be to tall. So I'm thinking as close to 45 as we can get.
grin


I forgot to post the Jackal head! 
[image]
In so far as arms - I recomend just having the right arm posable and the left ar attached (like the zombies) - this leaves more space for extra heads, tails, claws, were-fashion accessories, etc!

-lachlan

I'd like to see at least both arms poseable. The zombies with there one possible arm have fairly static poses. Alright for shambling zombies, not so much for athletic wear wolfs.



As for dog forms - there are plenty of suppliers out there who do dire wolves etc.

-lachlan

Or yah know. Paint a Jackal Head a Golden Brown and say it's a hound.
XP

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#43 [url]

Jul 6 09 6:01 PM

They need to be bigger than a human, but not Ogre sized.
 
Lycanthropes aren't giants, even in crinos form.
 
At least not in any game I play and would be using the miniatures for.
 
They are muscles on muscles with fur, they don't need to be that vertically gifted.
 
I've seen 3 Underworld movies and those Lycans managed to look hardcore without smashing their heads into ceilings.

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#44 [url]

Jul 6 09 8:27 PM

I've been thinking a great deal about this thread, but I always seem to get distracted.  There's just too much for me to properly consider.  But there are a couple things that I think I may be able to help clarify/expand.  I'm also hoping that I don't come off preachy--if I do, it's unintended.
 
First-- RE: jackals.  Some sort of shapeshifting jackal has appeared in AD&D since 1977.  Witch doctors were also given to have shapeshifting powers including the ability to become a jackal.  This article http://www.jstor.org/pss/537184 recounts a tale from the mid-1930s.
 
Second--RE: hyenas.  Most of this has already be covered reasonably well.  Narcissus in Chains was a horrid book (as is everything I could force myself to read past Obsidian Butterfly), but does feature werehyenas.  See also: bouda if you're looking for more historic information--mostly from Ethopia/Sudan. 
 
But hyenas being what they are, IMO, they don't work so well when trying to combine them with other shifters.  Their particular morphology (the elongated neck, the pathetic looking hindquarters, the external genatalia: at least on the spotted hyena--which would probably be covered by a merciful patch of excess fur, etc.) marks them as being too far apart.  I think that it could work if you do a generic torso and then modify the hands and lower body to match the particular shifter, but I then fear that we're going to have so many options on the sprue that there won't be any room left for the werewolves!
 
Third--RE: crinos form.  I don't know if this has changed since the WW switched over to "The Forsaken" from "The Apocalypse", but a "by the book" crinos form is supposed to add 50% to an individual's height and 200-300% in terms of a person's weight.  As a direct comparison of myself against those figures, I would roll in at just under 9' and right about 1,000 lbs.  Even a small woman would come in around 7 1/2' and 300 lbs.  
 
IIRC, and it's quite possible I'm mistaken, The Howling and Dog Soldiers had their werewolves coming in considerably taller than the average person (8-9'), but not quite so much "muscle on muscle held together with muscle and even more muscle".
 
Fourth--RE: male to female ratio.  One of the oddities of human morphology is that our females constantly display their mammaries.  Other animals do not normally do so unless they are lactating.  So, unless a female werewolf is currently nursing her pups, her torso is unlikely to differ dramatically from that of a male.  Still, I'm not opposed to a moderate/small "enhancement" to the bust of one of the models.
 
As far as the sprue goes, I'd love to see three (two male, one female--if differentiating) with a fair amount of posability.  I'm not concerned about being able to make feline weres/bastet out of them, but if it can be done without sacrificing the wolfiness, I'm good.
 
Thanks for bearing with me...

That's like hypnotizing chickens...

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#45 [url]

Jul 6 09 9:35 PM


First-- RE: jackals.  Some sort of shapeshifting jackal has appeared in AD&D since 1977. 


 
To satisfy my curiosity, please name it. I've been playing D&D for 20 years and I don't recall it.
 

 Witch doctors were also given to have shapeshifting powers including the ability to become a jackal.  This article

http://www.jstor.org/pss/537184 recounts a tale from the mid-1930s.
 
They're not lycanthropes.
 
I don't really care if a Jackal head makes it onto the sprue. My point was that Jackals are not a common form of Lycanthropy, or one I had ever heard mentioned before, while Werehyenas are.
 
 
 
 

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#47 [url]

Jul 7 09 3:42 AM

I really like the last one - I hate to say it... but many of them look like Wolf heads!!  LOL!

However - looking at the Jackal head - even with the egyptian collar it really wouldn't suit (it needs a statuesque body!).

I'm all for 3 x 40mm bodies, posable arms, two tail varients, 2-3 head varients (cat, dog + maybe demon/bat/thingy) and maybe some fun things like a 'mane' to make the dog head into hyena, a collar & chain and maybe a pointy tail to make the cat tail into a demon tail.

"Don't try to make babies with your own roleplay character - it always ends in pain & shame" - Advice I never thought I'd have to give once, let alone TWICE!!

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#48 [url]

Jul 7 09 9:20 AM

You don't need large breasts for it to look female.

Thinner shoulders, wider hips, thinner/pinched waist.

Thows features = Female.
=)

There is such a thing as flat chested women.
>___>


That's a Stylized Jackal. Real Jackals:


Relay taking a 2nd look at them, they look more fox like then anything. =) I've got nothing ageist a Realistic Jackal Head or a Stylized Jackal head thow. For me either or is alright.

Just pointing out you don't need a stylized jackal head with a statue-esq body.




@Pinky:

As for suggested they should be "muscle on muscle held together with muscle and even more muscle", I get your point. Witch is accualy what I was kinda sujesting.

Instead of making them body builders to make them bigger, I would like to see them with a more atheistic build. Like there wouldn't be slender, They should have some muscle to them. But they shouldn't be on the roids. Just a really well build and athletic pyshic.

So to make them look larger then normal people. Instead of going in the horizontal, I'd like to them them bigger them people in the vertical. anywear between 40mm-45mm is the height I whould like to see. No taller then 45mm, tno shorter then 40mm.

I'm going to be useing these guys next to Reaper and GW modles, so the closer to 45mm the better for my uses. But even if there just 40mm I chould "make do" I guess.

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#49 [url]

Jul 7 09 10:00 AM

They shouldn't be any more slender than this

I think the ideal should be like the center guy in this pic

or the center model in this pic

I'd be delighted if at least one body on the sprue was like this pic

Oh yes. for got to mention. No Yiffy!


 
Fox heads are Yiffy, and any Jackal Heads that look like fox heads are Yiffy.

Jackal Heads that look like Anubis are cooler, but not Lycanthropes, and belong on slender more human like bodies.

If we are going to drop to 3 models to a sprue I would drop the female in favor of 2 dynamically posed males and a bigger beefier male.

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#50 [url]

Jul 7 09 10:11 AM


Fox heads are Yiffy, and any Jackal Heads that look like fox heads are Yiffy.Jackal Heads that look like Anubis are cooler, but not Lycanthropes, and belong on slender more human like bodies.
If we are going to drop to 3 models to a sprue I would drop the female in favor of 2 dynamically posed males and a bigger beefier male.

-adamsouza


Yiffy = Furry Porn


I said no Yiffy as a joke that no one better post any Furry art with Genitalia/nipples/ect.

wink

Surprise, Surprise I'm a part of the Furry community. (Not the fringe Furry community who fur suit and do creepy things mind you. The main steam community who just thinks the art is cool. Damn do I hate the fringe guys who give us all a bad name...)


I would still like to see 2 Males and 1 Female. Since I got the feeling the concesses was less one interchangeable parts and more on Possible parts. Meaning a Female body chould work on this sprue, were on others before it could no.

But if we end up with 3 male bodies then so be. I could live with that.
=/


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#51 [url]

Jul 7 09 2:56 PM

At 45mm you could perhaps get 4 to a 4"x6"sprue but with almost no room for arms, tails and heads - At 40mm you could get 3 on 3 quarters with spare tails and have the other quarter free for posable arms & optional heads.

I agree adam on the bodies you've highlighted - really the discussion is not 'male' or 'female', but large/bulky or small/slim.  I'd go large/bulky, but not ogre sized - more as in the sketches.

"Don't try to make babies with your own roleplay character - it always ends in pain & shame" - Advice I never thought I'd have to give once, let alone TWICE!!

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#52 [url]

Jul 7 09 9:29 PM

To satisfy my curiosity, please name it. I've been playing D&D for 20 years and I don't recall it.


The jackalwere (not werejackal--and I did not state that it was an "actual" lycanthrope, but a shape changing jackal) first appeared in the original Monster Manual (c. 1977).  The Monster Manual II added the wolfwere to the menagerie as well as Sea Wolf, Wereshark and Foxwoman to the Lycanthrope entry. 

While the jackalwere and wolfwere are not a lycanthropes, even by AD&D's mangling of the term to include not only non-wolves but also non-canids and eventually even fish, jackalweres certainly shared the hybrid form that we're pursuing.  The illustration I remember (unfortunately I no longer have access to my books) was that of a jackal head, human-like torso and arms, holding a femur--possibly pulling meat off it.  Wikipedia and a few other sites I discovered (just by searching "jackalwere" and "jackalwere TSR") turn up the 1977 date.  It should be on page 56.

I'm certainly not advocating parts for them being included on the sprue, just trying to provide a little historic background for people changing into jackals and their place in the grand scheme of things.  Whether or not that place in history (such as it is) amounts to anything in plastic is another matter for someone other than me to decide.

d-l: I get your comment on the bodies.  They should be ripped, but not necessarily bulky.  More Tyler Durden (Brad Pitt) from Fight Club and less Conan (Arnold Schwarzenegger) the Barbarian.  I wouldn't object to one "Conan" on the frame, and I rather like the idea of a "small/slight, medium, large" set.

That's like hypnotizing chickens...

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#53 [url]

Jul 8 09 7:27 AM

...AD&D's mangling of the term to include not only non-wolves but also non-canids...

-pinky-narfanek


That's something that has bugged me since I first became aware that Lycanthropy technically refers to were-wolves, and only were-wolves.  And yet, thanks to AD&D, people beleive it means all types of were-critters...

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#54 [url]

Jul 8 09 8:47 AM

I goggled Jackalwere in Google image search and got this from the official D&D web sight.


The Fur is a Hyena Patten, but the Head is most defently a Jackal.

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#55 [url]

Jul 8 09 12:57 PM


That's something that has bugged me since I first became aware that Lycanthropy technically refers to were-wolves, and only were-wolves.  And yet, thanks to AD&D, people beleive it means all types of were-critters...

-kristof65



There is also a mental illness called lycanthropy in which a patient believes he or she is, or has transformed into, an animal and behaves accordingly. This is sometimes referred to as clinical lycanthropy to distinguish it from its use in legends. Despite its origin as a term for man-wolf transformations only, lycanthropy is used in this sense for animals of any type. This broader meaning is often used in modern fictional references, such as in roleplaying game culture.


There just isn't a better term, other than perhaps disease transmitted lunar affected animal based shapeshifter wink

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#56 [url]

Jul 8 09 5:30 PM

Well, there's theriomorph.  Although that is supposed to refer to deities and not just us mere mortals and it suffers from being a truly rare word whereas "lycanthrope" is something that lots of folks might have heard.

OK, next argument wink  Should the weres have tools?  Broken branches, over-sized knives, staves?  Anything?


That's like hypnotizing chickens...

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#57 [url]

Jul 8 09 5:48 PM

I don't think tools are nessessary - and depending on the tools you may inadvertantly place them in a specific genre (ie a sword is old school, a wrench modern era, etc).

Just good old fashioned claws and bad attitude (so no smiling faces!) grin

"Don't try to make babies with your own roleplay character - it always ends in pain & shame" - Advice I never thought I'd have to give once, let alone TWICE!!

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#59 [url]

Jul 8 09 6:01 PM

...and if you felt the need - use your conversion superpowers!

"Don't try to make babies with your own roleplay character - it always ends in pain & shame" - Advice I never thought I'd have to give once, let alone TWICE!!

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#60 [url]

Jul 8 09 9:40 PM

Well, it did need to be asked. 

White Wolf's garou often used weapons (staves, klaives/big knives with speshul p0werz, and even guns) and D&D werewolves have the option for using weapons.  Not to mention Palladium's Wolfen or the mutant animals in Rifts, etc.

Now, I can do a bit of conversion (a nip here, a tuck there, etc.) but GSing an entire suit of armor, sword or even bowie-style knife is out of my league...I don't even want to think about what the vargr from Traveler would require.

That's like hypnotizing chickens...

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