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#21 [url]

Sep 6 13 12:14 PM

  As strange as this may sound...  I think wargamers reallly dont know "what to do with WW I" as for gaming. After all I think most of our "first impressions" of military history we get from the youth of watching "war movies". (boy theres a great historical resource  thank you Hollywood) I think that caught in the middle of the technological change is part of it. Tanks replacing the mass cavarly charges, trench warfare, and of course the 'Aero-plane',  who no one really knew 'what to do with' at first.

-jack


Yet by 1918 the Allies had gained a pretty good idea if the final weeks and months of the war are any indicator... the French Army had reached a point where the infantry -fed up with being fed into a grinder to little purpose for nearly four straight years- would not advance without tank support, and the British had figured out that tanks were the game changers, so massing them whenever possible was considered ideal (and don't forget that the British had more than one type of tank -ie., the Whippet- and armored cars that the tanks literally dragged across bad going until the cars were brought behind the opposing lines, then turned loose like a pack of hunting dogs to seek out and destroy German rear echelon units including headquarters, troop concentrations, and supply columns). 

1918 after the Allies broke through the German front lines were far more fluid encounters, just as the German Kaiserschlacht offers the wargamer plenty of scope for combined arms battles (ie., the British defensive practice of "Savage Rabbits").

Personally, I'm stuck on the idea of WF releasing a 1/56 scale Renault FT-17 given its ubiquity in both World Wars and many a conflict between, from the Rif War in Morocco to the Chinese Civil War, from the Spanish Civil War to the defense of occupied France and anti-partisan duty in the Balkans. All the kit would need for options are the barrels and gun mantle plates for the M1914 Hotchkiss machine gun, the 37mm 18SA cannon, and the Mle31 7.5mm Lebel machine gun for the "updated" variant used during the Second World War by the French and German armies.

I would also bet that the Warhamster 40,000 crowd would glom onto a reasonably priced hard plastic FT-17 kit for their Space Ork hordes, as would model and diorama builders. 

Leland R. Erickson, Evil-Genius-at-Large "Clouseau! Give me ten men like him, and I can destroy the whole world!" -Inspector Charles Dreyfus

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mrinku

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#22 [url]

Sep 6 13 1:45 PM


Leland, I hate to belabour the point, but there is plenty of sprue acreage for all that. We normally see four sprues, three with 10 soldiers and one with support and command options.

Excellent pictures, mate :) 

I agree that "popularity" isn't the only issue here. In wargaming, trends are often set simply by a company making something available that wasn't before.  

I'm on your side as far as WW1 goes - love to see it and think there is a good market there. Disagree about support kit, but tanks or cavalry may bring the kit count up to 6. Plus there are always the Russians and Italians!

Mark Dewis

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#23 [url]

Sep 6 13 3:07 PM

Leland, I hate to belabour the point, but there is plenty of sprue acreage for all that. We normally see four sprues, three with 10 soldiers and one with support and command options.

-mrinku


Bah! I'm always right (just ask me)!


Excellent pictures, mate :)  


I aims to please...


I agree that "popularity" isn't the only issue here. In wargaming, trends are often set simply by a company making something available that wasn't before.


Hence my obsession with things 16th Century Ming Chinese...

  

I'm on your side as far as WW1 goes - love to see it and think there is a good market there. Disagree about support kit, but tanks or cavalry may bring the kit count up to 6. Plus there are always the Russians and Italians!

Austro-Hungarians and Russians, and we're on the same page if we can get enough of the support assets in the sets...

Leland R. Erickson, Evil-Genius-at-Large "Clouseau! Give me ten men like him, and I can destroy the whole world!" -Inspector Charles Dreyfus

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#24 [url]

Sep 6 13 10:56 PM

While most of my comments on WW I may have sounded as if I were against WF going in that direction, I actually think it would be a cool set for them to produce. Im just not sure, as mentioned my others previously, if its 'current' popularity would be worth WF making the investment in that period right now.
And I have to say again..  I would so love to see them get into producing Warships of the Great War.

Now just based on popularity, while there are "No" shortage of suppliers of Napoleonic miniatures out there, if they maintain their great price and really nice workmanship, I cant imagine how that could ever be a bad move for this company. Im certain they would be able to cut out a place for themselves in that market as it seems that period has never become UN-popular in gaming.

BTW.. *Luo
very cool pics, great of you to add them. Makes me want to dig out my WW I video series and start watching it all over again.

"You see old friend, I brought more soldiers than you did." 'King Leonidas - 300'

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mrinku

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#25 [url]

Sep 9 13 1:52 AM


Hmm... I just had a thought.

We may be making one BIG wrong assumption here.

Daisy didn't mention scale.

This could easily be a  10mm or 15mm project, in which case the field is *wide* open, as almost no-one has done 15mm plastic outside of WW2 yet. (edit - just found there are some ACW ones)

In which case, I'd have to guess:

10mm Napoleonics, British and French infantry, artillery and cavalry.

Mark Dewis

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#26 [url]

Sep 9 13 6:23 PM

Then....there IS room for post Dark Ages plastic minies.. Norman Invasion (defenders are already released), War of the Roses, something to add onto WSS.....ALL kinds of things to speculate about.

I am therefore I think....OR....I think therefore I am...OR...I think I am therefore I am!!

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#27 [url]

Sep 9 13 6:59 PM

Hmm... I just had a thought.We may be making one BIG wrong assumption here.Daisy didn't mention scale.This could easily be a  10mm or 15mm project, in which case the field is *wide* open, as almost no-one has done 15mm plastic outside of WW2 yet. (edit - just found there are some ACW ones)In which case, I'd have to guess:10mm Napoleonics, British and French infantry, artillery and cavalry.

-mrinku

True enough the lady didn't mention scale, however given WFs predilection for 28mm, I'd say it's a higher probability that the new series will be 28mm...

Leland R. Erickson, Evil-Genius-at-Large "Clouseau! Give me ten men like him, and I can destroy the whole world!" -Inspector Charles Dreyfus

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#28 [url]

Sep 9 13 7:00 PM

Then....there IS room for post Dark Ages plastic minies.. Norman Invasion (defenders are already released), War of the Roses, something to add onto WSS.....ALL kinds of things to speculate about.

-crazyharborc


Franks/Carolingians, Byzantines, Moors, Spaniards... oh, yeah!

Leland R. Erickson, Evil-Genius-at-Large "Clouseau! Give me ten men like him, and I can destroy the whole world!" -Inspector Charles Dreyfus

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mrinku

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#29 [url]

Sep 9 13 7:19 PM


True enough the lady didn't mention scale, however given WFs predilection for 28mm, I'd say it's a higher probability that the new series will be 28mm...

-luoshangzhi

It's an imponderable until we get more scraps. But they have already tested the waters with WW2 15mm, which is probably *the* most popular category at the moment. Keep in mind that due to the way WGF produce their sprues, they don't have to limit themselves to one particular scale - the sculptors are digital and they can scale (within reason) in the layout process.

Mark Dewis

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jack

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#30 [url]

Sep 9 13 7:44 PM

We may be making one BIG wrong assumption here.  Daisy didn't mention scale.
This could easily be a  10mm or 15mm project, in which case the field is *wide* open,..

-mrinku


Mrinku,
Thats true enough, however sometime back, I havent dug out the specific post, but Jim did mention, "for the time, WF is going to concentrate on True 28mm". Which is what Im hopeing the new 'historical line' will be.
Lets face it guys, with the worlds history of conflicts, its a 'cornucopia' of possibilties..   HEY, you know, its a long shot.. but no one has mentioned, "Biblical Wars"? It certainly would be a 'new' direction and still a Historical line for WF.

However, to give some 'strength' to your 15mm possibility, during the interveiw, Daisy did highlight the "15mm Crusader", so its clear they will be doing something sooner or not 'too' far down the road, in the way of futuristic 15mm miniatures.

"You see old friend, I brought more soldiers than you did." 'King Leonidas - 300'

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#31 [url]

Sep 9 13 9:39 PM

Yeah. It was really just a passing thought as I was looking at some various scales of Japanese armies the other day.

It's also still quite possible they might pitch for 28mm Napoleonics - just because there are several other major players in that field doesn't mean they can't get a slice of that fairly large pie. They've not been shy of doing that for WW2, after all (though admittedly WW2 is an even bigger pie). But I sort hope not, given that Perry and Victrix really do have it mostly sewn up between them.

Mark Dewis

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bryon31

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#32 [url]

Sep 10 13 5:59 AM

I think the limitation of 1 war on the new sets is the most difficult clue to unravel. I'm not sure every suggestion mentioned fits the parameter of 1 war. My question is what defines 1 war? Is the 100 years war considered 1 war? Or for that matter the crusades? Or are we talking about a relatively short yet intense conflict like the American Civil War?

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#34 [url]

Sep 10 13 10:59 AM

I think the limitation of 1 war on the new sets is the most difficult clue to unravel.   are we talking about a relatively short yet intense conflict..

-bryon31

I think its a fair guess, and thats all it is at this point, that it will be something like ACW or ECW etc. a single conflict that occured within.. a 'decade' or less.

Mrinku,
I agree, as I have said before, Napoleonic war seems to have always been very popular for gaming. I think there is still "plenty of room' for one more company IF, they choose to join in, I hope thats not the line, but we will see.

"You see old friend, I brought more soldiers than you did." 'King Leonidas - 300'

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#35 [url]

Sep 10 13 2:33 PM


As already discussed, it may be a little hard to justify 6 boxes for either the ECW or ACW, given that you can efficiently cover both sides with the same kits and some hat options. ECW/30YW has a couple of cavalry options, and I guess you could market separate pike and firearm kits, though.

Pike Infantry
Musket Infantry
Dragoons
Curiassiers
Artillery
??? - not sure. Firelocks? Camp followers? Militia?

Mark Dewis

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#36 [url]

Sep 10 13 5:32 PM


AWI might be a good direction for WF. 

I'd personally enjoy a line of "Mongols and their Enemies" because of the sheer variety of potential foes. A solid ruleset to accompany them would be welcomed. Current ancients rulesets have a problem with handling units that are supposed to be extremely fast and it shows in the weakness of most Asian mounted forces in mainstream ancients rules.

The problem with historicals is that the most popular eras have popular rulesets supported by popular miniature lines. WF ends up on the outside looking in. It is difficult to get a share of the pie when you're standing outside watching everyone clustering around the dinner table for dessert.

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mrinku

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#37 [url]

Sep 10 13 6:50 PM


The problem with historicals is that the most popular eras have popular rulesets supported by popular miniature lines. WF ends up on the outside looking in. It is difficult to get a share of the pie when you're standing outside watching everyone clustering around the dinner table for dessert.

-hootenanay


However, unlike, say Games Workshop games, historical miniature gamers *expect* to be able to use any suitably scaled figures from whatever manufacturer that strikes their fancy.

Because the miniatures are based on what actually existed, the rules sets themselves are less important. Indeed, if the rules don't take into account some weapon or troop type that was fielded but supplied by a manufacturer, it's a problem with the rules, not the manufacturer.

Even the most GW-like of the historical games (Flames of War) can't stop other manufacturers producing 15mm WW2 vehicles and troops. They hardly have a copyright over "Sherman Tank" or "Strelkovy Battalion", after all. And if a player decides that they would rather use another rules set, at worst they may have to consider rebasing their infantry models. 28mm skirmish rules almost universally assume round individual bases of about 20-25mm in diameter, so even that is not a particular issue.

The money is in selling kits, not rulebooks. I'm sure Jim and Daisy could really care less what rulebook people are buying WGF minis for, as long as they buy WGF minis :)


Mark Dewis

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#38 [url]

Sep 11 13 4:51 AM

general_lee,

Welcome to our forums! I am not surprised your guess is ACW. I would have thought you would refer to it as the WNA or ACW/WNA!



mrinku,

Both Daisy and I care very much about excellent rules systems that are fun to play.

As a 50+ year gamer much of my focus is on the gaming element of the miniatures hobby. Yes, realistic rules that no one wants to play will not receive support. That is a necessary business decision, I agree.

As a company we are very focus on finding rules systems that our customers both like and use. To us that is an important part of our customer service. For example, both Daisy and I ask on Facebook and these forums what rules do you like to play and why on a regular basis.  Daisy just asked this very question on Facebook about zombie rules just a few weeks ago.

Jim

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#39 [url]

Sep 11 13 6:01 AM

general_lee,Welcome to our forums! I am not surprised your guess is ACW. I would have thought you would refer to it as the WNA or ACW/WNA!mrinku,Both Daisy and I care very much about excellent rules systems that are fun to play.As a 50+ year gamer much of my focus is on the gaming element of the miniatures hobby. Yes, realistic rules that no one wants to play will not receive support. That is a necessary business decision, I agree.As a company we are very focus on finding rules systems that our customers both like and use. To us that is an important part of our customer service. For example, both Daisy and I ask on Facebook and these forums what rules do you like to play and why on a regular basis.  Daisy just asked this very question on Facebook about zombie rules just a few weeks ago.Jim

-jim_goss

Well, I like Black Powder from Warlord Games. Play that quite often. More plastic ACW or WNA ;-) would be most welcome ;-) Especially Union infantry in sack and frock coats (yep, that's what I said, Union infantry) Or AWI would be nice too!

With regards to Zombie games. The 'Combat Zone' rules from EM4 are quite fun

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#40 [url]

Sep 11 13 6:03 AM


btw, here are a couple of pictures from one of our games at Utrecht (Black Powder)

And I'm not getting any notifications when someone replies. I have enabled that in my account so that's weird


















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