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#41 [url]

Apr 7 09 5:51 PM

With the chainsaw it can be used for both. Four figures with Four long ranged weapons, 4 melee weapons, and pistols. It doens't even sound like you plan on using the melee weapons, so I don't understand your opposition.

"to opposition for US marines & Delta force" does not mean a foreign threat. The 1988 movie The Seige has the US Marines used on American Soil against Americans.

There is already enough firearms to arm each model with contemporary civillian firearms.

Sniper Rifles and Uzis are not stuff civillians are going to have.

I get that you don't want the chainsaw, but that's not reason enough to exclude it. It only adds to flexibility of the sprue.


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#42 [url]

Apr 7 09 5:51 PM

If Marines/ Delta are fighting them...good chance they are paramilitary militia, soldiers, enemy drug lords militia, religious militia, guerillas, or insurgents (another name for guerillas) wink.

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#45 [url]

Apr 7 09 5:59 PM

But if something that calls for a militia is in the sprue description, surely that means that these can be used for militia?

Here's my opposition. If I am buying a group of models to be used as a gaggle of rebels, paramilitary fighters or some such than I would like a variety of ranged weapons to reflect this. Having what amounts to a shotgun and generic assault rifle and pistol as the only ranged weapons option is rather bland.

Plus, if you can get your hands on an assault rifle you can probably get your hands on an SMG, and a bolt-action rifle does not mean a sniper rifle.

Regarding militia; to use an example, the militia that engaged the British regulars at Lexington and Concord during the beginning of the American Revolution were random civilians that grabbed guns, trained for a bit with them, assembled where they were told, and started shooting. That's the vibe this sprue gives off strongly.

Again, I also feel that including so many melee weapons, and especially the Chainsaw which clearly can be used only for zombie hunters, severely limits this sprue's use for other types of paramilitary organizations. If people wanted zombie hunters they would have preordered zombie hunters and not generic civilian fighters. 

Live Forever, Apes ~Lieutenant Rasczak

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#46 [url]

Apr 7 09 6:14 PM

You can use it as militia as is. 
You can use it as a street gang as is.
You can use it as zombie hunters as is.
You can use it as criminals as is.

Militia implies an organized force of armed individuals.
Armed civilians implies an angry mob.

WACO - Militia
LA RIOTS - Armed Civilians
Near Future Oil Rioters - Armed Civilians
Near Future Depression Victim Food Radiers - Armed Civilians

There are other sprues in the LAUL that would satisfy your desire for more exotic weaponry.

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#47 [url]

Apr 7 09 6:40 PM

How are SMGs exotic while assault rifles are not, especially in a more backwards part of the world? Honestly, I'm just curious as to the distinction there. Are SMGs harder to get or something? Plus older rifles are certainly still common in certain parts of the world I would imagine, especially if this is the disorganized rabble you seem to want them to be.

Furthermore, there is no guarantee that those sprues will pass at all.
The equipment of an angry mob equipped with ranged weaponry and a militia will be virtually analogous; I think that's what Kenshin and I are getting at here.

If these sprues have to be merged I guess I'm alright with the melee weapons staying but the chainsaw really needs to go; it defeats the whole point of versatility of the sprue. If you are part of an angry mob, you may be using a baseball bat or crowbar, sure. You almost certainly will not be using a chainsaw; that just screams "zombie hunter".

IMO merging these sprues will just sacrifice the opportunity to make the ZPL especially specifically more tailored to the role they are intended to play. Besides, equipment such as a bulletproof vest that would be cool and sensible on an angry mob, militia or some such doesn't make any sense for zombie hunters. Combining these sprues will sacrifice a lot of customization options.

Live Forever, Apes ~Lieutenant Rasczak

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#48 [url]

Apr 7 09 7:06 PM

Sorry Adam, but I've got to side with tuninstor on this. I think more would be accomplished having two separate spruces with interchangeable parts.


Also the discription talks ALOT more about the modles being civilian militia more then zombie fighters. It's more "Hey. They chould also stand in for them too!) Also the reference material reenforces this.







REFERENCE MATERIALS: Movies: Blackhawk Down, The Wild Geese, Shoot 'Em Up, Children of Men, Resident Evil



The only Reference material given that involved zombies is Resident Evil/BioHazard. The rest are very zombie free movies.In the game the only melee weapon you usely get is a Combat Knife. (In 5 you can get a stun baton witch is pretty funny.) After that it's all ranged weapons. Zombie survival guide be damned, shot them dead agien! More or less guns of Resident Evil that are in EVERY game:

-9mm pistols
-Magnume Revolvers
-MP5's
-Uzi's
-Pump Action Shotguns (both tactical and civilian)
-Hunting Rifle
-Grenade Launchers

There are more fighting zombies with conventional weapons, then the unconventional.

There is no chain saw in ANY of thows refrences as far as I know. There for by refrence materal Combat knifes should be the only Hand to Hand weapons.

The Description to me is Civilian Millita 1st, not zombie fighters 1st. I think the two spruces are diffrent enough to remain separate. Not to mention could complement each other.

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#49 [url]

Apr 7 09 8:25 PM

It is a militia:

Definition: The term militia is commonly used today to refer to a military force composed of ordinary citizens to provide defense, emergency law enforcement, or paramilitary service, in times of emergency without being paid a regular salary or committed to a fixed term of service

Thus this equals MILITIA

Combined with the original references: Blackhawk Down, The Wild Geese, Shoot 'Em Up, Children of Men, Resident Evil

Which are mostly militias, and military organizations.

The though of combing the 2 ideas of ZBL, NFAC, is folly. ZBL is a specialization, while NFAC is a broad category, the miniatures in my mind are destined to be armed with a variety of Assault Rifles, and outdated machine guns, and maybe some pistols.

The idea of a militia that would fight off Delta Force or fight in a civil war being armed with pipes, and actually the chainsaw is ridiculus.

The idea that a sprue that has 80% combining with a sprue that has 13% that is based on a completlly diffrent idea is also ridiculus, what in the hell is a near future armed civilian/militia man going to do with a chainsaw? nothing. And this sprue is the 80%, not ZPL. No combining. The majority of people who bought this sprue also would have had a choice to buy ZPL. They didn't.

no they should not be combined. Ever. Different ideas, diffrent variety of weapons, different types of people. I think it was created by someone who wanted thier sprue to be fast tracked. Personal opinion of course.

And Civilians are Militias. Thats what Militias are, Armed Civilians.

In the description it mentions irregular civilian forces in almost any 3rd world country, which is MILITIA. Not rioter throwing a rock at police. That is not an armed civilian, that is not a revolutionary, that is not civil war. That is a riot. Not part of the description of this sprue.

And I will continue spitting this if anyone wants to hijack this sprue.

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#50 [url]

Apr 7 09 8:54 PM

Main weaponry would consist of

Assault rifles:

AK-47 (It is the cheapest and most wide spread weapon in the World) Almost every resistance, military, militia, rebel, and criminal group is armed with these babies.



M-16.

SMGS:

MP5s, and UZIs (most common of the type)

Pistols:

Some standard looking ones and a revolver looking one.



CLOTHING:

Masked heads (like bandana style, balaclava, ski mask)

A couple transferable helmets military type to show scavenged.

Chest rigging

Dress shirt and tie (can be used for wither business man, or police officer)

One chest with a hoody, one in a T-shirt, and maybe one in body armor, that makes 5.

Pants, Jeans, and cargo pants.

Shoes/boots.



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#52 [url]

Apr 7 09 9:27 PM

Heads should also have some sun  glasses, baseball caps, ski caps (mask up), bare heads and maybe some more tribal/gang heads?  Mohawks and such?  Or is that too much a different direction?

I like the suit and tie idea but it should probably be an alternate torso.  It makes sense for a leader or bodyguard but not for a civilian rabble. 

As for the chainsaw, again I vote yes for it.  Not all games are realistic, chainsaws do not belong in realistic modern/near future game, but that's not the whole market.  For Necromunda, 40k, Roadkill, Gangs of Mega City One and other games a chainsaw is fine addition.  Not all games are realistic, and this is not meant to be a historical kit.


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#53 [url]

Apr 7 09 9:28 PM

Yeah, I would be disappointed if this became a dedicated zombie-fighters set. I ordered a load based on the original description because they would be useful for a whole range of real world conflicts. One chainsaw, I could deal with.  A whole range of melee weapons(especially zombie-fighting types)-no thanks.

Jason

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#55 [url]

Apr 7 09 9:43 PM

so, we want these for chests:

One with chest rigging
One with  Body armor
One in a hoody
One in a T-shirt,
? One in Shirt and tie, (I have 1 nay so far for this one.)

Weaponry seems to be spot on, AK-47s, M16s, MP5, UZI, Pistols (I really dont think too much of pistols but meh)

I would say mostly AK47s, but I am biased and I think they look cool. (Comrade really likes this idea)
what do you all think?

4 of the masked variant heads, and maybe 4 unmasked with 2 with hats. Attachable helmets (like the british riflemans set)

and a SINGLE damn chainsaw

do we all agree?

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#56 [url]

Apr 8 09 4:05 AM

I'd replace the pistols with shotguns.......fairly common as a civilian/police weapon and much more useful as weapon for untrained troops.  Generally the only guys I use with just a pistol are characters.


John

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#57 [url]

Apr 8 09 5:47 AM

I don't know, I was planning on keeping the pistols in case some people wanted to use them for gangers and the such. Gangers have pistols, the rest of us use manly guns, like ASSAULT RIFLES..

Though we could throw a shotgun in there somewhere...... I guess..

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#58 [url]

Apr 8 09 10:50 AM

I'd say no tie, but an unbuttoned/ripped dress shirt could probably work, although you're far more likely to find people in T-shirts and the like.

We could drop the chainsaw for pistols. :P
Honestly, the chainsaw doesn't really make any sense for sci-fi gang battles either as firearms will have just gotten better and a chainsaw would be an pretty useless melee weapon against other humans, I think.

Live Forever, Apes ~Lieutenant Rasczak

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#59 [url]

Apr 8 09 12:24 PM

Street Gangs are running around killing people with Machettes, and you think a chainsaw is useless ?
 
Admttedly, a chainsaw is less than desirable against firearm equipped adversaries, but it is a pretty decent weapon for melee.
 
I'll concede all my reservations about everything else, and work up some concept art, if we keep the chainsaw angel

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#60 [url]

Apr 8 09 2:07 PM

Unless sprues get merged (ZPL) I think this sprue should be all firearms, no close combat nonesense. Leave that for the APL.

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