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Apr 10 09 9:42 AM

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http://www.wargamesfactory.com/BookingRetrieve.aspx?ID=49444

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#1 [url]

Apr 10 09 2:15 PM

SPRUE TITLE: FANTASY MEN-AT-ARMS

SUBMITTED BY: United States

SIZE/SCALE: 28mm

SET DESCRIPTION: A Sprue of 4 to 8 Fantasy Men-at-Arms armed with either Spear or Sword,
and shield, OR 3 Mounted with Spear/Lance and Shield. Possibly with a
variety of 2 different style of helmets or shields for the troops.

REFERENCE MATERIALS: Tolkien, Morcock, Any Historical Dark Ages with a fantasy flavour.


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#4 [url]

Apr 11 09 11:35 AM

I think this is unnecessary.  It would be better to get a good range of historical figures that can be customised to suit fantasy gamers.  There is no need for special sets - I have just built 64 Celts and no two are the same.

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#6 [url]

Apr 12 09 10:33 AM


Covered with skulls and spikes and wielding totally over-sized weapons?
Hrm... that sounds familiar... [image]

-zerotwentythree

I'd actually buy that! I hope they look really evil, so that I can use them as chaos thugs & raiders from the dark domains. Forget Tolkien or the historical dark ages, let's do Frazetta, Vallejo & other such barbaric fantasy trash. Moorcock is still invited to the party though.

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#7 [url]

Apr 17 09 9:41 AM

Oh I thought the topic was more Citadel Guard and Men of minas Tirith than fantasy barbarians maybe with the posh sort of fantasy army you get in some TV series?

"True but when you talk about damage radius, even atomic weapons pale before that of an unfettered idiot in a position of power." Sam Starfall from Freefall freefall.purrsia.com/default.htm

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#8 [url]

Apr 17 09 9:06 PM

GW already does them cheap. Many people seem to use regular historicals. But tell us, what would set these citadel guard & minas tirith dudes apart from regular medieval/dark ages guys?

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#10 [url]

Jul 27 09 11:19 AM

I presume the point made above was how this set would differ from League entries for 28mm historical multi-part models in the dark ages/medieval sections of this forum.

Perhaps a fantasy conversion sprue (containing alternative heads, shield designs etc.) for such historical sets, once they start coming out in numbers (and Vikings should be out in near future) would be another alternative.

The original entry is also a bit vague, in failing to make up decision about whether the entry should be for infantry or cavalry.

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#11 [url]

Jul 27 09 12:14 PM

While I agree that this could probably be covered by current and future historical sprues, the big problem is that when looking for historicals to use, many fantasy gamers have no idea of where to start.  Why? Because most historicals are shelved/cataloged under such descriptions as "HYW French Militia Crossbowmen" and "Crusades Era Saracens".  These descriptions, while probably being revealing to historical gamers, don't mean much to fantasy gamers like myself.  While I'm perfectly willing to purchase historical stuff for my fantasy armies, I admit that I get frustrated looking for it - it only takes a few few "misses" while looking to give up on the idea for awhile.

The trick, is, I think, to simply take some existing WF historical stuff, repackage it and market it as Fantasy Men at Arms.  Perhaps package it with a fantasy conversion sprue, if you want.  With a little bit of packaging expense, you've got a whole 'nother market looking at it.

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#12 [url]

Aug 27 09 4:38 PM

I agree with you Krist but even then some people might get confused. Before I delved into historicals I thought Men-At-Arms were like the Bretonnians (aka another word for Peasant Infantry) but in reality they were usually the most heavily armed and armored soldiers on the battle field. Sometimes you have to spell it out for them like Foot Knights or Armored Infantry.

Where is his will needed?

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#13 [url]

Aug 31 09 10:01 AM


The trick, is, I think, to simply take some existing WF historical stuff, repackage it and market it as Fantasy Men at Arms.

-kristof65

From a logistical point of view, having the same sprues sold under two different names/packages might be less than desirable. Not to mention potential for confusion/disappointment amongst persons buying both, expecting them to have separate contents. Perhaps other means of raising awareness amongst the fantasy crowd could be useful (say, big posters showing Celts fighting a dragon).

That said, adding a fantasy conversion sprue to an existing kit would probably make it different enough to justify existence as a separate product. That is sort of what will be happening with the Vikings/Saxons - they will share the same bodies, but have different head/weapon sprue thrown in.

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#14 [url]

Aug 31 09 10:57 AM


From a logistical point of view, having the same sprues sold under two different names/packages might be less than desirable. Not to mention potential for confusion/disappointment amongst persons buying both, expecting them to have separate contents. Perhaps other means of raising awareness amongst the fantasy crowd could be useful (say, big posters showing Celts fighting a dragon).

-griefbringer


True, there are some logistical challenges. They may be worth it however, IF the resulting extra sales overall cover the additional costs.  FREX, in my industry - which is still very much cash based - I see a lot our site owners balk at taking credit cards because of the credit card merchant fees - the merchant fees can run as high as 20% of sales, while credit cards only boost sales on average 15%. So they look at the 20% and 15% and think "That's a 5% loss, why would I want to do that?"  What they typically don't calculate out is that 20%  is actually on the extra 15%, typically resulting in a net 12% gain overall.  12% extra sales usually isn't something to sneeze at.

This could be a similar situation. Or not - I don't have all the facts to know for sure. But it's not unheard of for companies to market the exact same product under different names - particularly in consumer electronics. Many times DVD players, TVs stereos, etc, will be sold under different model numbers, and the only difference between them is the label with the model number, and the chain of stores they're sold at. 

I was merely throwing the idea out there because it's "solution" to a "problem" I face. I often don't even bother with historical lines, even though I know there are some good candidate figures within them, simply because I don't know what I'm looking for and it gets frustrating. At one of my FLGSs, they have a nice historical display, and I can browse through them by sight, picking out what I want, so when I do by historicals, I usually go there. At another one, the entire historical section is nor more than a square foot worth of pegs, and consists primarly of WF zulu and British figures - because, in their words "historicals don't sell very well."  And most online shops are organized to for the historical player who knows what he's looking for, not for the fantasy gamer who's looking for something appropriate for his fantasy army.

So my suggestion was really aimed at answering the question "How can we get more fantasy oriented stores to carry these and/or make them easier for Fantasy gamers to find?"  It was by no means the only answer to that question.

Other possible 'solutions' could be posters/marketing campaigns like you suggest, add-on stickers for merchants/distributors to use to raise awareness as desire, dual sided packaging (one side says Historical Warriors, Type X, with one picture, while the other side of the box says "Fantasy Men-at-Arms"), etc.

My ideal solution would probably be to throw in a conversion sprue to make the vikings/celts/etc true Fantasy warriors, but I'm guessing that is probably the most expensive of the solutions, and not likely to happen for some time, if at all.


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#15 [url]

Aug 31 09 11:29 PM


 dual sided packaging (one side says Historical Warriors, Type X, with one picture, while the other side of the box says "Fantasy Men-at-Arms"), etc.

-kristof65

This would probably produce its own fair share of confusion. Never mind the sneering reaction from the grumpier historical gamers, who would manage to interpret this as fantasy miniatures being sold as historicals (rather than vice versa).


And most online shops are organized to for the historical player who knows what he's looking for, not for the fantasy gamer who's looking for something appropriate for his fantasy army.

-kristof65

How should one organise an online store navigation for fantasy players looking for historical models to add to their collection? By the style/amount of clothing, by the level of armour, by the armament or something else? Another issue is that if one is looking for a particular visual style, then navigation based on text can be difficult.

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#17 [url]

Sep 6 09 10:05 AM

Not necessarily. Various suggestions were thrown out to use historical stuff to fulfill this frame, and/or to make this an add-on frame to one of the historical frames.  Basically, it was asome brainstorming on ideas to make this more cost effective for WF, attractive to consumers, and therefore get it out faster.

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#18 [url]

Sep 13 09 11:06 AM

By the way, on another thread Howard wrote that the upcoming Viking sprue will contain an optional horned helmet - thus allowing people to construct some fantasy Vikings out of the set if they want.

[Contrary to the common image shown in popular culture, there is no evidence that historical Vikings ever used horned helmets in combat.]

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#19 [url]

Sep 13 09 4:44 PM

I wondered about those horns and wings while in high school. "Oh yeah, I want horns and a chin strape to tie in a knot and then wear it tied VERY tightly.

I am therefore I think....OR....I think therefore I am...OR...I think I am therefore I am!!

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#20 [url]

Nov 25 09 2:22 PM

These guys arent doing well for a very popular subject. Maybe its the title. People want to hear things like Fantasy Warriors/Knights/Paladins or something. I dont know. Brettonian Players would love these kind of guys

Where is his will needed?

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