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Sep 20 10 9:13 PM

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Well?  What's wrong with you people?!!! No one's thought to submit a proposal for the armies of Charlemagne?!!!

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#1 [url]

Sep 21 10 3:41 AM


Dear loushangzhi. 


Well done for starting this thread. 

Carolingians are cool.  From a war-gaming point of view, they are Saxons with good cavalry.  Royal guards look very cool with their red cloaks, white crested helmets and red / yellow shields.

From a historical point of view, the Carolingian Franks (approx 714 AD -888 AD) united / conquered the Saxons, Visigoths, Burgundians, Frisians, Alemanni and Lombards to rule France, the Netherlands, Germany, North Italy and neighbouring lands as far as Barcelona, Rome, Budapest and Prague.  They fought the Moors, the Vikings and the Normans and the nomadic tribes such as the Avars.

The Carolingian Franks may well be the historical inspiration for Rohan and Gondor in the Lord of the Rings.

Visually, they are similar to Saxons and could easily be done with a new mini sprue of weapons, cloaks, shields and heads.  The shields were round, curved and often studded. The better troops have distinctive bowl shaped helmets and spears with a slightly cruciform point. 

Mick

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#2 [url]

Sep 21 10 4:17 AM


Saxons and Vikings, with some conversion parts thrown in for various small bits of equipment.

- And some cavalry.

Alexander Hunt. Co-author of the Warhammer Fantasy: Total Realism project. Author of Defiance: The realistic modern and future skirmish ruleset.

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#3 [url]

Sep 21 10 11:19 AM

Here are the Artizan Carolingians so that you can see the helmets and shields.
Leaders
http://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=1071
Heavy Infantry
http://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=1072
Unarmoured
http://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=1063
Heavy cavalry
http://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=1070
Archers
http://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=1073
 There are very few other ranges to look at.
Mick


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#4 [url]

Sep 21 10 1:28 PM

Well gang, it sounds like what Tony & Coy. need to do next is issue a set of mini spures then that give us the necessary heads, shields, and such mixed with the existing body sprues to give us the forces of Charles Martel or Charlemagne, and the sooner the better!

Leland R. Erickson, Evil-Genius-at-Large "Clouseau! Give me ten men like him, and I can destroy the whole world!" -Inspector Charles Dreyfus

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#5 [url]

Sep 22 10 5:51 AM

It would be very nice to have Carolingian infantry, and it is relatively easy to do.  However, the key to the army is to have cavalry.  It only makes sense to do cavalry if there are horses and bodies for Dark Ages cavalry. 
I suspect that Normans are much more popular and would outsell Carolingians 5 to 1. 
Mick

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#6 [url]

Sep 22 10 7:40 AM

It would be very nice to have Carolingian infantry, and it is relatively easy to do.  However, the key to the army is to have cavalry.  It only makes sense to do cavalry if there are horses and bodies for Dark Ages cavalry. 
I suspect that Normans are much more popular and would outsell Carolingians 5 to 1. 
Mick

-mickfarnworth


Oh, I suspect you're right about the popularity of Normans vs. Carolingians (and my checkered ancestry pulls me in both directions), but I'm still partial to Charlemagne's gang...

Leland R. Erickson, Evil-Genius-at-Large "Clouseau! Give me ten men like him, and I can destroy the whole world!" -Inspector Charles Dreyfus

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#7 [url]

Sep 22 10 8:32 AM

 I suspect that Normans are much more popular and would outsell Carolingians 5 to 1. 

-mickfarnworth


Given you know more about historical wargames than I, I'm assuming you're probably right.  However, a lot of people like me who don't have a clue about who the Carolinigians are do know the name Charlemagne. One might be able to balance the ratios a little more by doing some clever naming and marketing using the more familiar name.

As a fantasy player looking for historical figures to use with a fantasy game, I'd completely ignore the name Carolinigians in favor of the Normans every time.  But if the choice was the Normans and something referencing to Charlemagne, I'd wind up looking at both before I made the call.   In the end, of course, it would still come down to the way the minis looked, but at least the Carolinigians would be given a chance.

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#8 [url]

Sep 23 10 4:09 AM

Given you know more about historical wargames than I, I'm assuming you're probably right.  However, a lot of people like me who don't have a clue about who the Carolinigians are do know the name Charlemagne. One might be able to balance the ratios a little more by doing some clever naming and marketing using the more familiar name. As a fantasy player looking for historical figures to use with a fantasy game, I'd completely ignore the name Carolinigians in favor of the Normans every time.  But if the choice was the Normans and something referencing to Charlemagne, I'd wind up looking at both before I made the call.   In the end, of course, it would still come down to the way the minis looked, but at least the Carolinigians would be given a chance.

-kristof65

QFT

Where is his will needed?

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#9 [url]

Aug 4 11 7:40 AM

As stated in this topic Carolingian Franks are easy to collect. I'm looking for the 4th - 5th  century Franks. The guys that started it in the area that is now the southern part of the Netherlands. 
There are plenty of figures for 6th century Saxons, Normans, Goths, Vikings. There are figures for 2nd and 3rd century germans, but where are the figures for 4th century Franks?
I'd propose a set with Franks , some with the typical shaven neck and/or  the "swabian" knot. Hand weapons like the angons and the "typical" frankish axe.  
Some nobles and a mix of "heavy" light and unarmored figures,

Ride fast, time grows short

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