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#21 [url]

Dec 25 10 7:05 PM

Oh yes....a what if scenario, a world that could have been. The makings of a campaign set in the period of...?? A alternate invasion of England...Celtic peoples returning, instead of Normans

I am therefore I think....OR....I think therefore I am...OR...I think I am therefore I am!!

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#22 [url]

Dec 27 10 9:15 PM

Thankfully whiskey was invented before the Irish could run amuck! ...wait a tick you Anglos perfected that fire-water trick before you gave my ancestors a hangover....who else did you palm glass beads on! ;)

Winners work hard, losers whine about the other guy

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#23 [url]

Dec 27 10 9:19 PM

Thankfully whiskey was invented before the Irish could run amuck! ...wait a tick you Anglos perfected that fire-water trick before you gave my ancestors a hangover....who else did you palm glass beads on! ;)

-darthbrom

Oh just all of the tribes they ever came across.

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#24 [url]

Dec 28 10 6:08 AM

Mmmm, that's a difficult knot to cut, given the previous hundred years or so.
I will make my usual plea for sanity, toleration and understanding before I very carefully and with respect add the observation that an absolutist, Catholic and expansionist France would not necessarily have led  to anything other than the continued expansion of an absolutist Catholic France across the Atlantic and the removal of those first European democracies and republics unfortunate enough to stand in their way. For good. Period. 
As for the Protestant religion, we need only refer to his revocation of the Edict of Nantes to understand that the writing would have been on the wall for them.
If the above had transpired, then  I doubt that this sentence would have been written when it was, echoing the writings of amongst others the Levellers.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Just a thought smile


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#25 [url]

Dec 29 10 12:57 AM

Oh yes....a what if scenario, a world that could have been. The makings of a campaign set in the period of...?? A alternate invasion of England...Celtic peoples returning, instead of Normans

-crazyharborc

Noooooooooooooooo

There is too much use of the four letter C word.

I am not celtic, have never been celtic, and will never be celtic.

I am a Gael with a Scots Gael (Guoidel) father and an Irish Gael mum.

To label the Gael's under the catch-all Celt is to tar us with the same brush as the P culture trash down south and on the continent - and quite frankly I would rather shove an angry badger down my braes...!!!!!

As an aside, the "Celts" (P culture) did invade in 1066 with "Bill the Bastard" - the Breton's..!!
(of course they were meer underlings under the Norman command.)

Without so much as a damn your eyes www.16ld.org

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#26 [url]

Dec 29 10 1:09 AM

Mmmm, that's a difficult knot to cut, given the previous hundred years or so.
I will make my usual plea for sanity, toleration and understanding

-krisgibbo

And thank you very much.
 
Having been affected by the "troubles" quite personally I react quite violently to uneducated and uninformed remarks about Ireland. I tend not to reply threads on forums as I do let loose with both barrels in the first instance when the bloods up, so by the time I sit down and relax the comment is out of date.
 
I would just ask that inflammatory comments made about Irish politics by folk who don't have a clue about them are left well alone on a forum about little plastic figures so we can all get back to daydreaming about the things we would do if we ever got round to painting these plastic mountains we are aquiring.
 
cén fáth go bhfuil mo dice fuath liom?
Slainté,
Andy

Without so much as a damn your eyes www.16ld.org

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#28 [url]

Dec 29 10 1:51 PM

I will say no more on the matter and adhere the the sage advice given to me prior to my first visit to a bar in Ireland.-  " and all you need to remember is no mention of religion and no bloody politics".

I am now tempted to buy some of these stout fellows, even if only to see the look on the oppositions face as I insist his redcoats and not mine deliver the first volley. No, I really do insist.......

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#29 [url]

Jan 4 11 2:14 AM

16qld, where ever did you get the idea we Irish are not Celtic???  Ireland was conquered by Iberian Celts,

-jjdiffley


And very correct you are, but as “Celt” was a catch all word that covered a people from the middle east (Galatian) to the British Isles it’s a bit of a generalisation.

And where as the Roman’s did call the Britons as Celts they also referred to the Irish as Scotti so there you see a difference in the way they were perceived.

The Irish differed from the P culture celts (Scots-Irish are referred to as “Q cluture”) in dress, language, and customs, so a very, VERY different culture.


Back to your calling me uneducated and uninformed, since I cannot use an "ignore" option on these boards, I will simply ask Howard to kindly remove the offensive and offending post.  I will not be replying to any of your posts again, and consider you to be without an manners.
John

-jjdiffley


 
Dear John,

Your constant and unabated Anglophobic comments mixed with your pretence at being Irish (If you can play for the national team, then you have a right to claim nationality) hits a nerve with anyone who has any involvement over here. Hearing comments like yours while living in the aftermath of my uncle being shot by provo’s just because he married a Sligo girl is offensive.

Your comments are skewed as you have a political stance that you uphold and you certainly do not mirror Irish general feeling – even period feeling – this has come across quite strongly in your posts I am afraid.

If you think I am unmannered, I am afraid you are firing very wide of the mark. Manners are what have prevented me retorting prior to now to some of your very inflammatory remarks which I do not see fitting to a forum for little plastic men.



Back on history, if you look closer at 1641 to 1660 you will find it gets very complicated.
In 1638 -1641 you had a Scots King on an English throne making war on Ireland AND Scotland (Bishops War), by 1643 you had the Irish fighting for the same king and the Scots army split fighting for and against the King till eventually you have a the Scots/Irish army fighting unilaterally for the King.

Come the restoration, the King of England’s body guard was Irish and were loaned out to the French where they stayed after the Glorious Revolution.

Never mind the Navy, the backbone of the British army has for a long time been Scots Irish with many of the most famous regiments heralding from those countries. (The Enneskilins, Coldstreams, Connaught Rangers, Royal Irish, Royal Scots, Gordon’s, the Watch, the HLI to name but a few)


Now, back to the little plastic men……..




Happy New Year,
Andy

Without so much as a damn your eyes www.16ld.org

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#30 [url]

Jan 4 11 2:25 AM

I am now tempted to buy some of these stout fellows, even if only to see the look on the oppositions face as I insist his redcoats and not mine deliver the first volley. No, I really do insist.......

-krisgibbo

Do it, they are great.

I played my first game last week using the 1644 rules and it did get a little confusing when Clare's Brigade closed with Furguson's Brigade and you had all these red-coats together on both sides.



Click here to view the attachment

Without so much as a damn your eyes www.16ld.org

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#31 [url]

Jan 5 11 3:46 AM




I played my first game last week using the 1644 rules and it did get a little confusing when Clare's Brigade closed with Furguson's Brigade and you had all these red-coats together on both sides.

-16qld

Nice regiments (esp the flags - pays to know the Regimental vexillolgy)), Andy! 

How did you find 1644 played for this period? Have you played Black Powder or BLB to compare?

Cheers, Rohan.

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#32 [url]

Jan 10 11 3:04 AM

Nice regiments (esp the flags - pays to know the Regimental vexillolgy)), Andy! 
How did you find 1644 played for this period? Have you played Black Powder or BLB to compare?
Cheers, Rohan.

-pinkus

Hi Rohan
(GdB forum Rohan?)

Thanks for the comments.

The colours came from Warflag, drapeaux.org, and Robert Hall

We were playing the old (bought in the early 90's) 1644 and it misses out some of the more particular WSS rules - not that they would have mattered much.

As a first game we kept it quite basic with only 2 brigades of 4 battalions and two gun batteries per side while I am still finishing painting the army of the Sun King (and cavalry for both sides).
Due to French shortages, Hessians fought on both sides.........

We used 1644 to bring our sons in to period gaming. It was simple enough that they could pick it up and gave enough random elements to stop the game being to calculating. Command and control was a little too on/off, but we got an enjoyable game out of it.

Yet to play Black Powder, but I am a big fan of Warmaster and I do have the rules. We thought that the rules would be better suited for the fathers rather than the children just because of the way you give orders would better suit a more mature and laid back approach we thought.

BLB is out of stock everywhere. My local shop had it in, and when I went back to buy it it had gone with no chance of a re-stock untill R2 comes out. Although my basing is different, BLB does work with different basing so long as everyone uses the same.

Just in the process of finishing 2 more French regiments to get me up to two brigades (only 3 battalions per brigade) with another 4 to do before I start on the cavalry.
I am using the Blenheim OoB for Rosel's corps on a 1:25 ratio, and Massenbach's brigade for cavalry support
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blenheim_order_of_battle#Marquis_de_Rosel.27s_Corps

Cheers,
Andy

Without so much as a damn your eyes www.16ld.org

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#34 [url]

Jun 21 11 6:43 AM

" I was actually hoping to mix some Pike and Shotte era with the WSS, regardless of the years...hmmm..."
Pikemen were  still present, if in a low proportion, in Russian and Swedish infantries during the GNW, so it can be the same in your Imagi-Nation(s).
Then, you can also field militia with half-pikes (like the Irish Rebels of 1798
) and matchlock muskets...

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#35 [url]

Jun 21 11 8:04 AM

@
(seemingly a 'guest', not a member, so I cannot send this message privately to you?)
Bonjour,
 I discovered (and was 'hooked' by) wargaming  *and* the use of 18th C. Imagi-Nations almost 40 years ago in C. Grant's 'The War Game' and I'm still deeply interested in the topic: http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/2011/06/21/imagi-nations/#post0

Thus I noticed your posts about the 'United Provinces of Erin' in the 'Imagi-Nations: learn me' thread on the WF Forum while Googling for 'Imagi-Nations'.
Of all the intervenants you looked as the most motivated, already discussing the possible flags and uniforms of your 'creation'!

Is your project still active?

{Just between you and me: note that, if you are not 'bonded' to 28mm -specially if you are a solo wargamer, or find people tempted by the experience but not inclined to engage much money- cheap 1/72 plastics offer  rich possibilities http://lagerburgduchy.blogspot.com/ (wider choice than current 28mm plastics: http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Index.aspx)}.

Do you know of the 'Emperor vs Elector' collective blog http://emperor-elector.blogspot.com/, the tribune of the 'League of Lace Wars Imagi-Nations' ? If browsing the 80-some individual blogs associated to it, you'll see how bewildering is the diversity of approaches, from 'novelization' of the picaresque adventures of a few characters to campaigns of continental scale.


About your flags and uniforms (totally unsolicited comments!):

- Flags: 'national flags' were practically unknown by the 18th C., the very concept appeared with the 'nations' born from the American and chiefly French Revolutions; at most there were 'identification jacks' used at sea to display the nationality of ships. The only noteworthy exception was the British 'Union Jack' used as the 'King's Colour' by infantry (but NOT the cavalry, so it was not yet a 'national' flag); probably because there was a recent 'Union' to 'hammer in the heads'? Then, since the 'United Provinces of Erin'  are clearly born, like the USA, of what was at the same time a war of independence and a political revolution, the new state may well have a 'flag'; yet remember that the 'Stars & Stripes' was not used by the US army before 1835!
Actually during the 18th C. the 'nationality' of a military unit was indicated by the *pattern* of its flags, with generally different patterns for the infantry and cavalry; for instance in France infantry had flags with a white cross, cavalry standards or guidons with Louis XIV's 'Sun' on one side. Infantry regiments generally had two flags, one King's / Lieb / Colonel and one 'regimental' showing the facing color (initially the lining of the coat, visible at the cuffs, lapels, collar, turn-backs..) characteristic of the unit.
Thus your project of flag could be the 'State' flag of the infantry, while the whole Irish Wolf design (but with the motto in Gaelic, not hatred English!) could be device of the 'State' side of the cavalry flags.
Regarding the infantry flag, they were square, not rectangular, by then: not a problem if each of the 4 'components' is itself a square. Now, Ireland was traditionally divided in '4+1' (A + Tara) so the County of Meath can have its 'arms' appearing as an 'inescutcheon en surtout'  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escutcheon_(heraldry)#Inescutcheon over the center of the flag? The corresponding colors don't appear on your post, but could provide the bases for the uniform of the Consular / Presidential Guard?
http://images.vector-images.com/205/meath_county_coa_n10609.gif?
http://images.vector-images.com/205/meath_mide_county_histcoa_n10597.gif?

-Uniforms: a good and seducive idea to use the heraldic colors of the Provinces for the uniforms, but I'd restrict it to the Cavalry (and perhaps the 'Parliament Guard' of each province?): infantry was generally less colorful and, being the majority of the army, dressed with cheaper cloth bought in bulk quantities.
Thus 'normal' infantry would be in green coat, with perhaps the 'facing color' (often appearing also on the 'small clothes': waistcoat, breeches, stockings) indicating the Province of origin-red, blue, white, yellow.
Another characteristic was the 'metal' of the button (pewter / silver  or brass / gold) reflected on the tape / lace edging the tricorne and often the buttonholes: white or yellow. For the infantry I'd give 'silver' to the 'line' and 'gold' to the 'Guard'.
For the cavalry, the 4 Provinces would provide units in yellow coat / red facings,   blue coat / yellow facings,   white coat / black facings,  green coat / yellow facings, with 'gold' for Horse (Cuirassiers) [rectangular standard] and 'silver' for Dragoons [bilobed / swallowtail guidon]? Alternatively Dragoons (initially mounted infantry) can be all in green coat with facings as the infantry of same origin?


Do you have a blog? The best, most reader-friendly medium to share your project. On the TMP and Yahoo groups, illustrations (of limited size and resolution) are separated from text and practically deprived of captions. On forums, illustrations can be inserted in the text, but their size and resolution are limited (they are not 'clickable' to a larger version); and chiefly, your posts are scattered and 'lost' among a multitude of other peoples' ones, without the possibility to 'label / tag' them for easy sorting out and retrieval. While blogging is free, easy (even a dinosaur from the age of mechanical typewriters such as me can manage), everything posted can be edited later, you post at your own pace...  Forums are great for exchanging informations and advices, and to post 'flashnews' linked to the relevant post on your own, project-devoted blog. And having to write down your ideas, plans, progress reports... in a  'publishable ' form greatly help to have them clear and straight.

Cheers,
Jean-Louis

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jack

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#36 [url]

Oct 12 12 2:36 AM

Ok.. yep  been a while (over a year) since any word on this site.. but Im slow  LOL

I just wanted to say, especially to any 'New Gamers' who have always wanted to play some of the many European 'based' conflicts, but like myself may not be really knowledgable off all of the "facts" of any particular war.

Wargames Factory War of Spanish Succession series combined with your own "Imagi-nation" is THE chance of a life time to bring "Your" nation to life.

If you have not, please read over this section, I would encourage you to at least read "all" of the first 5 or so posts, it will help give you an idea of what its about and perhaps some inspiration to help you along. 

As previously stated, all you really need, is to find a set of rules that is based on the "musket" time period. Also, look for a post I started entitled "Whats your Favorite WSS Rules System".
I asked my fellow gamers to give their input on which system they enjoyed the most and felt was more historically accurate. Im sure you will find this very helpful and informative.
 
You will find that topic in this same area; "Horse and Musket: War of the Spanish Succession"

"You see old friend, I brought more soldiers than you did." 'King Leonidas - 300'

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#37 [url]

Oct 31 12 11:54 AM

If intrigued by Imagi-Nations you could do worse than browse the archives of the 'Emperor vs Elector' 'collective blog' http://emperor-elector.blogspot.fr/ and those of the 80-some blogs associated with it.

Then, if you are building an Imagi-Nation [or a pair of hereditaty foes!] ( semi-GNW,   Free Irish, War of Friesian Succession, New Erin...) or an 'unhistorical' unit (such as captainmathias WSS Maiden Guard) please start a blog: it's free, easy, requires no maintenance, you post at leisure at your own pace. To post for public access helps you to put your ideas clear and straight, you record your projects and progresses and get interesting feed-back (generally). And it's the most reader-friendly of all supports, far superior to photos stored on Photobucket or the like (practically no captions), Yahoo groups (illustrations and text in separate folders) and even most forums -it's your own soapbox and display case.

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jack

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#38 [url]

Nov 1 12 1:31 AM

I really love 'every' painted example of historical or Imgai-nation regiments that have been posted. *16qld and the rest, as or if you are one of "those" contirbutors, my hat is off to you and I Thank You.

I am sorely tempted myself to jump into the WSS collection, but Im up to my arm pits (and down to my last tranquilizer) in getting my Colonial Brits completed.. and Im less than half way THEN back to my beloved Zulus (30 done 60 to start) which I find much easier to work with.

Thats one more thing that makes me want to get into the WSS also, I wont have to even try to construct troops using two hands to hold their rifles, just give'm the order "Left Shoulder.. Arms!" and my problems solved. LOL

"You see old friend, I brought more soldiers than you did." 'King Leonidas - 300'

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