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Aug 12 11 2:33 PM

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Help promote the game as well as WF's War of Spanish Succession line by giving your opinions on "your favorite", or any rule system that you have tried that covers this European conflict.

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#2 [url]

Aug 16 11 9:31 PM

I personally prefer the Nine Years war (Grand Alliance, League of Augsburg) more than the WSS, however...


WRG 1420 to 1700, 2nd Edition, George Gush
Beneath the Lily Banners, v2.0, Barry Hilton


The Compleat Brigadier, oop (1:20), with house mod's
Batailles de la Ancien Regime (BAR), Bill Protz (1:10), with slight mod's

Bill Sir William the Aged

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#3 [url]

Aug 16 11 11:17 PM


My favourite rules for WSS are Barry Hilton's "Beneath the Lily Banners". 

I've played several games with the new version 2, and it plays very well. Initially the sequence seems a little complex, but by second game & third check  of book all flowed very nicely. The 2 QRF sheets rapidly become all you need to play. The 2nd edition is a lot clearer & more fully explained than the 1st, so I recommend the extra money for this rather than the pdf download of the 1st.

Units are stylised  - basically 3 stands of 6 figures for infantry (+ a base of pike for those so armed) and squadrons of 6 figures (2 stands) for cavalry. I particularly like that the cavalry is deployed by squadrons rather than anachronistic regiments, a fault I find with many other rule sets. Mind you, Barry's squadron represents 200 - 240 sabres, so in reality 2 French or other country's units with small squadrons, though only 1 of some larger German formations. Reference to OOB's is useful. Barry & the chaps on the League of Augsburg website are very helpful should you need help. Re-basing figures is generally not needed.

Orders, Formations and Movement are simple and it really captures the flavour of the period consistent with all my reading on the era (I've "devoured" most of the references in English print on this period). The fact that some units may not move if the brigadier is average or less is great, and there is an entertaining section of random events should players chose to use them. Artillery is not the "uber-weapon' of later periods. Command control is important.

These rules can be used at many levels - small one on one games, larger games, campaigns or scenario/teaser type games.

The rules are well produced, with some excellent eye candy. They cater well for stated period - 1688 - 1715. Thoroughly recommended.


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#4 [url]

Aug 17 11 11:05 AM

I'd like to take moment to say "Thank You" to all who have put in there VERY valuable time and 'two pence'  worth.grin

But sincerly,
THANK YOU for your comments and ideas.. please tell others of my little "spontaneous poll" and ask them to participate.

"You see old friend, I brought more soldiers than you did." 'King Leonidas - 300'

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#5 [url]

Aug 18 11 5:23 AM


Definitely Beneath the Lily Banners.

These have been well researched to give the right result for the period and the right feel - rather than just "stretching" rules from another period.

The WSS really was VERY different to the wars that came before and since. Taking a popular system and scratching out the word "Blade" and adding the word "musket" just does not cut it.

They are inexpensive (less than a few cents a game after a year or so), well written, profusely illustrated with figures that will inspire and actually play well.

Have fun!


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#6 [url]

Sep 12 11 7:34 AM

Finest rules I’ve used for the WSS and SYW (and 18th century in general) are Kings of the Battlefield. I use 28mm figures, with 3 bases of infantry and 3 bases of cavalry making a unit. Like most good games they are simple to learn (the 2 centre pages contain the bulk of the rules) and difficult to play well. The melee is to my knowledge unique and we have had cavalry and infantry melees with multiple units swirling around, joining and breaking away.

I’ve rebased my armies for these rules, and will rebase my FOG renaissance armies. Haven’t had so much fun wargaming in years, and have fought more games to a satisfactory conclusion with these rules than with any other. If there is a downside it is the number of figures needed – to take advantage of the rule’s playing mechanisms you need at least 10 infantry and 10 cavalry units per side. My Hinchcliffe 25mm metal Austrian army (10 Cavalry, 10 infantry and 4 guns) cost over £250 as castings. However WF’s plastic figures reduce the price of an army dramatically.

Excellent rules and highly recommended.


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#8 [url]

Sep 14 11 4:10 AM

we're ( my regular opponent of 30 odd years and I) are playing a game with my Poles (1683 to early 18thc - Winged Hussars Pancerni, etc) against my Turks - 600 point armies to limit size, time and to make both of us choose and leave certain options behind. Will take some pics and post them.

The rules have been reviewed online they are very good. Ian Godwin wrote them

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#9 [url]

Sep 14 11 4:39 AM

uncertain about uploading pictures so here's first try
here are 2 of the first of the Austrian Command
they are Irregular Miniature figures made by Ian Kay  flags from Warflags I think certainly off the Internet
have 2 Austrian regiments with WF figures not yet photographed but could remedy that for a man called Magyar - wrote an article on the Coming of the Hungarians for one of the magazines years ago - can't remember which one, there were more in those days - and of course my book about Janos Hunyadi is all about the Hungarians

Click here to view the attachment
Click here to view the attachment

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#10 [url]

Sep 14 11 7:28 AM

WOW! gorgeous! Thank you.

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#11 [url]

Sep 15 11 6:49 AM

I use the Carnage and Glory computer moderated system for all my periods, with the exception of WWII skirmish...only because none is available. Carnage and Glory has systems for pike and shot, WSS, SYW/AWI, Napoleonics and Civil War. I do Great Northern War and use the WSS system, which works great. I use the pike and shot rules for my 28mm Eastern Renaissance (Poles, Cossacks, Turks, Austrians and too many more to note) and my 40mm ECW games. For anyone going to HMGS East Fall In I'll be running a Eastern Renaissance game and 40mm AWI game.


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#12 [url]

Sep 20 11 8:40 AM

We (my long time opponent and myself) used computer moderated rules for all our 6mm and 2mm armies – from Biblicals to WW2 (the Great Captains for WSS as well as Gunpowder for the earlier period)

Good for large numbers of small figures however for our 25/28mm WSS we use King of the Battlefield – different style of game which I don’t feel is achievable with a PC.

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#13 [url]

Sep 20 11 2:00 PM

*Perkinous,  those pics are of your 10mm army right?  Would love to see some of your 28mm units.
Curious about the rule system you mentioned.  You said, 3 Inf or 3 Cav "bases per unit", so how many figs per base to build that 'unit' / company?

"You see old friend, I brought more soldiers than you did." 'King Leonidas - 300'

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#14 [url]

Sep 21 11 3:44 AM

The above Austrians are 25mm – sold the 6mm figures. The rules are designed for 15mm figures and have 6 infantry to a 30mm x 30mmbase and 3 bases to a unit -  1 base can be a battalion gun. Cavalry are 3 figures on the same base. Full details of the ground/figure/time scale are in the rules, however I can state that these rules have rejuvenated my wargaming, and I haven’t had so much fun in years. Played with 25mm last week, 15mm on Monday and will take on the Swedes with 20mm Russians on Friday.

I use  25mm figures - have large numbers and did not want 15mm - so rebased mine on 50mm x 50mm bases. I could use the same number of figures but the bases look crowded (see the command posted earlier) – so I use 2 cavalry and 4 infantry to a base, with 3 bases to a unit – have finished two poorly painted WF plastic infantry units and could post a picture in a few days if anyone’s interested.  Can also post my other armies for this period, although not WF figures – Poles, Turks and Russians.

To use the rules properly you need 8 -12 units of cavalry and a dozen units of infantry -  you get 3 12 figure units (or if you prefer 18 figures 2 units) from a box, and 2 units of cavalry if you use 6 figures – or 2 units from 3 boxes.  Makes the project financially viable and the figures are excellent as you know.

My Russian army is an early army and needs regular cavalry to go with the Streltsi and armoured cvalry  - I’m ordering the WSS cavalry to give me regular dragoons. Ordered 3 boxes - six units of Russian dragoons coming.

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#15 [url]

Sep 21 11 5:12 AM


Not sure why you'd think the computer moderated rules work for smaller scales but not necessarily for 28mm...I use Carnage and Glory for 40mm and can be used for any figure or ground scale.  8-12 units of cavalry and 12 or more infantry units is a rather small game for me...


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#16 [url]

Sep 21 11 6:30 AM

I know they work for anything. When we used 6mm we had corps games with a hundred units a side and the PC handled everything beautifully. However for our games now I prefer the personal touch. The Computer Strategies PC rules were very good, with built in campaigns, naval and solo games, army lists and maps, however like the smaller scales my tastes in rules have changed.

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#17 [url]

Sep 21 11 6:33 AM

true to my word some poorly painted Austrians. Started life as Russians, black undercoat and green coats, then more black undercoat as I decided to make them Austrians. Ran out of white primer so painted them with a brush, whch is why there are gaps. Still, they look good from 4 foot on the table.

Click here to view the attachment

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#18 [url]

Sep 21 11 3:06 PM

The above Austrians are 25mm – sold the 6mm figures.


*Perkunios, so these are 25 mm?  Ok I really thought they were 10 - 15mm.

The rules are designed for 15mm figures and have 6 infantry to a 30mm x 30mmbase and 3 bases to a unit -  1 base can be a battalion gun. Cavalry are 3 figures on the same base.

I use  25mm figures.....    so rebased mine on 50mm x 50mm bases. I could use the same number of figures but the bases look crowded...    so I use 2 cavalry and 4 infantry to a base, with 3 bases to a unit –  

I of course trust your years of experience and respect your decision, but from what I have read from this time period, like that of the Napolionic wars, having your ranks "fairly" close, practically shoulder to shoulder, would actually look pretty acurate for the time period.

have finished two poorly painted WF plastic infantry units and could post a picture in a few days if anyone’s interested.

I hope you dont mind, but I took the liberty to save, 'brighten' and crop this pic just a bit so I could get a better look at your work. 


Im sure your right, to the "button counters" (as I call perectionist's), they may be "poorly painted", but I for one think you did a really good job.

"You see old friend, I brought more soldiers than you did." 'King Leonidas - 300'

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#19 [url]

Sep 30 11 8:38 AM

I must be the most ancient campaigner here.  I have used WRG Horse and Musket, Picquet, Complete Brigadier, and more I cannot remember.  I like and prefer Ben King's Fusil and Fortress: 1:25 figure ratio, 1 game turn equals 15 or 20 real minutes.  It uses charts and only two dice rather than the now common handful.  I especially like that it reproduces the firing order of units.  If a French battalion fought in four ranks, then your figures on the table are in four ranks.  This detracts a bit from the linear look, unless you have a really big game.  That was why I rejoiced when WF came out with their WSS figures.

They are not flashy with lots of color like modern sets, but they are solid in comtent.  King was a serious researcher, and the guys he play-tested them with in Newport News, VA, in the late 1970's were ecudated, knowledgeable readers of history. 

Alas, these are long out of print, but worth the trouble to find, IMHO.

Bob Potter.

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#20 [url]

Oct 2 11 11:08 PM

I must be the most ancient campaigner here. reminds me of Tom Brown's Schooldays - I am the oldest Old Boy but one.
First set of rules I used covered this and several other periods and so excited was I by them that I used all my Airfix figures in a great battle - Robin Hood fought WW2 Germans and I rememebr I had a 20mm plastic Viking ship and crew.
The rules were by John Tunstill and explained where and who the 33 soldiers the single figure represented were in regards to that figure. For the time they were quite complicated and used a number of factors - much more impressive than the Don Featherstone rules I had used.
John is underated for the part he played in wargaming (certainly in the UK). he produced the first professional printed and distributed wargames magazine - and insisted that all articles had at least 2 references to back up any statements. I used the old plates for the magazine to base my original H&R 5mm ACW army - based on rules by the late Terry Wise.
I have fond memeroeis of using Frederick the Great with our 15mm armies, and of course the WRG rules, although the George Gush renaissance rules were better. My life long wargames opponent and friend was involved int he reissuing of Charge and so we played these. They were visually great and good fun, however we moved away from them, dissatisfied with the mechanisms.
There's room for all types of rules and players in the hobby. Both of us were so taken with Kings of the Battlefield rules that we dug out figures we havent used in 20 years and have had great fun with them, playing more enjoyable games with them to a successful conclusion than with any other rules we've used recently..

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